Discussion:
Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!
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Dinesh Thirumurthy
2017-12-28 18:05:29 UTC
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Dear Everyone,
You could try https://notabug.org/, which is Dutch-owned and hosted in
Germany. Note larger repositories (>100 Mb) are accepted per-case.
I have requested notabug.org to provide 1GB space for openbsd src git repo.
It would be good to demonstrate that that you also want this idea
implemented.

So, kindly help by voting Yes to my online poll.

The poll is at https://doodle.com/poll/rbg53x3dyd7i4y5d

Thanks very much.

Regards,
Dinesh Thirumurthy
Ingo Schwarze
2017-12-28 19:57:15 UTC
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Hi,
Post by Dinesh Thirumurthy
You could try https://notabug.org/, which is Dutch-owned and hosted in
Germany. Note larger repositories (>100 Mb) are accepted per-case.
I have requested notabug.org to provide 1GB space for openbsd src git repo.
I think you are coming dangerously close to becoming an impostor.
You are not an OpenBSD developer, so i don't think you have any
business requesting services for OpenBSD from third parties.

Of course, everybody is free to redistribute the OpenBSD source code.
But that doesn't mean doing so is a good idea when you have no reason
whatsoever. Unofficial distribution can cause confusion as to which
version is reliable. Who is going to maintain the offshoot you are
cobbling together? *You* obviously cannot be trusted. It will soon
become orphaned and a distraction.

If you want to tell people to play with OpenBSD, tell them to do
it the OpenBSD way. Stop your whining, your github-fanboy-attitude,
and your annoying chatter and distractive campaining, tell people to
use CVS, and start doing some real work instead.

If the VCS seems so important to you that you think OpenBSD is
unusable with CVS, your priorities are completely screwed up, so
just stop using it and go use Windows or Linux or whatever.

Yours,
Ingo
--
Ingo Schwarze <***@openbsd.org>
Christoph R. Murauer
2017-12-28 20:30:24 UTC
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Hello !
Post by Dinesh Thirumurthy
I have requested notabug.org to provide 1GB space for openbsd src git repo.
It would be good to demonstrate that that you also want this idea
implemented.
See https://www.openbsd.org/anoncvs.html in detail Setting up an
anoncvs mirror

There you can read for a complete mirror ... Anoncvs mirrors currently
require about 6GB of disk (and it will grow!),

For my understanding, why should I get src from your git mirror if I
need for ports www xenocara CVS ?

Would it not be a better idea to run a CVS mirror (if one is needed)
and provide also git if people really need it ?

IMHO CVS works fine for me so, why demonstarte that git works ?

Regards,

Christoph
Michael Hekeler
2017-12-29 17:16:22 UTC
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Post by Dinesh Thirumurthy
So, kindly help by voting Yes to my online poll.
The poll is "We want an OpenBSD Source Repository"????
Really???

But there are multiple source code mirrors.
Even anoncvs.ca.openbsd.org isn't located in US.

German mirrors are located in nuernberg and frankfurt.
Dinesh Thirumurthy
2017-12-29 20:09:11 UTC
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Dear Mike and others,

OpenBSD is great project. It should reach every country equally.
That is called "Parity". Rest of the world is at par with USA and Canada.

Have a look at this picture today

Loading Image...

If you provide git protocol access to USA and Canada.
I want git protocol access for Australia, Russia, Japan, Congo, Netherlands
and Rest of the World.

If you give Mr.Tom at San Francisco git access to src,
and Mr. Dick at Vancouver git access to src,
then Harry at London should also have equal or equivalent access.

Since we cannot provide equal access. Provide equivalent access. Simple
Idea Really.

Equivalent implies get a non US box up and running with git hosting of
openbsd src.

Currently, we are telling Mr.Harry, - You should not access src via our git
channel.
People in other countries have forked and cloned. Give them/us/me another
box
where we can get legally too via the same protocol.

Parity. Good idea.

Kindly think this over.

Dinesh
Post by Michael Hekeler
Post by Dinesh Thirumurthy
So, kindly help by voting Yes to my online poll.
The poll is "We want an OpenBSD Source Repository"????
Really???
But there are multiple source code mirrors.
Even anoncvs.ca.openbsd.org isn't located in US.
German mirrors are located in nuernberg and frankfurt.
Stuart Henderson
2018-01-02 12:03:05 UTC
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Post by Dinesh Thirumurthy
OpenBSD is great project. It should reach every country equally.
It does. Full repository with commit history is available and,
very unusually for an OS, this is not dependent on the USA.

Now that most open source projects provide repository access it's easy
to forget, but open repo access was not the norm - OpenBSD pioneered it.
https://www.openbsd.org/papers/anoncvs-paper.pdf
Post by Dinesh Thirumurthy
Have a look at this picture today
https://github.com/hakrtech/readme/blob/master/global-outlook.png
If you provide git protocol access to USA and Canada.
I want git protocol access for Australia, Russia, Japan, Congo, Netherlands
and Rest of the World.
Why focus on the access method? The code and history are the important
things.

So the git conversion is an experimental conversion of part of the
information in the cvs repository (no branches/tags) which is pushed
to github. It's not using OpenBSD project resources for hosting and
I doubt it would be publically available if we had to deal with
actually hosting it.

Hosting a large git repository is not trivial, it uses far more server
resources (memory and cpu time) than an anoncvs/cvsync/rsync mirror, and
OpenBSD src/ (or even just ports/) is *huge* for a git repo. It works
better on Linux where things are more separated. Even *just the kernel*
is split across multiple repos.
Post by Dinesh Thirumurthy
Since we cannot provide equal access.
Equal access to the git conversion would be trivial. Just delete it.
There, now nobody has access, it's equal.

Anyway, has anyone fetched your openbsd-src0-test repo from github while
crossing crypto export boundaries? That has the exact same issue,
except that now as it's your repo, it may well be considered that it's
*you* that is responsible for exporting it.

I'm not sure if your suggestion of a server in Germany would help.
Have you looked into export regulations from there? (Not sure which are
relevant but things like the Wassenaar Arrangement would be the place to
start looking).
Lari Rasku
2018-01-06 16:23:25 UTC
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Post by Stuart Henderson
Hosting a large git repository is not trivial, it uses far more server
resources (memory and cpu time) than an anoncvs/cvsync/rsync mirror, and
OpenBSD src/ (or even just ports/) is *huge* for a git repo. It works
better on Linux where things are more separated. Even *just the kernel*
is split across multiple repos.
The Linux kernel repo is multiple times the size of OpenBSD-src [1],
so I don't see how things being more separated helps them re: hosting.
Perhaps kernel.org just has more hardware to throw at the problem?

And in case anyone else was confused, the Linux kernel itself isn't split
across multiple repos: you can build a fully functional one from a single
checkout. It is the kernel *development* that is split across multiple
repos, with occasional merges to mainline.

[1]: Naive estimate based on comparing object counts when cloning from
GitHub:
https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/ - 5,779,337 objects,
https://github.com/openbsd/src - 1,741,047 objects.
Post by Stuart Henderson
Anyway, has anyone fetched your openbsd-src0-test repo from github while
crossing crypto export boundaries? That has the exact same issue,
except that now as it's your repo, it may well be considered that it's
*you* that is responsible for exporting it.
Surely the responsibility for exporting lies with the one doing the
checkout? Otherwise I don't see how operators of OpenBSD CVS mirrors
in the US aren't in the same position.

Or is there some technical distinction between "mirroring" and "checking out"
a repository? (I ask because the warning against fetching sources from USA
when located outside North America only appears on
https://www.openbsd.org/cvsync.html, not https://www.openbsd.org/anoncvs.html
or https://www.openbsd.org/ftp.html.)
Stuart Henderson
2018-01-07 21:13:41 UTC
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Post by Lari Rasku
Post by Stuart Henderson
Hosting a large git repository is not trivial, it uses far more server
resources (memory and cpu time) than an anoncvs/cvsync/rsync mirror, and
OpenBSD src/ (or even just ports/) is *huge* for a git repo. It works
better on Linux where things are more separated. Even *just the kernel*
is split across multiple repos.
The Linux kernel repo is multiple times the size of OpenBSD-src [1],
so I don't see how things being more separated helps them re: hosting.
Perhaps kernel.org just has more hardware to throw at the problem?
And in case anyone else was confused, the Linux kernel itself isn't split
across multiple repos: you can build a fully functional one from a single
checkout. It is the kernel *development* that is split across multiple
repos, with occasional merges to mainline.
[1]: Naive estimate based on comparing object counts when cloning from
https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/ - 5,779,337 objects,
Ah thanks, I didn't manage to track that down with the 850 others :)
Post by Lari Rasku
https://github.com/openbsd/src - 1,741,047 objects.
When I've tried converting in the past I've had things like it taking
about a minute to do a git log, even after the git repack that people
familiar with git suggested I try.
Post by Lari Rasku
Post by Stuart Henderson
Anyway, has anyone fetched your openbsd-src0-test repo from github while
crossing crypto export boundaries? That has the exact same issue,
except that now as it's your repo, it may well be considered that it's
*you* that is responsible for exporting it.
Surely the responsibility for exporting lies with the one doing the
checkout? Otherwise I don't see how operators of OpenBSD CVS mirrors
in the US aren't in the same position.
Or is there some technical distinction between "mirroring" and "checking out"
a repository? (I ask because the warning against fetching sources from USA
when located outside North America only appears on
https://www.openbsd.org/cvsync.html, not https://www.openbsd.org/anoncvs.html
or https://www.openbsd.org/ftp.html.)
I don't know all the details. But the github page about it at
https://help.github.com/articles/github-and-export-controls/
makes it sound like it's the repo owner's responsibility to me.
Bobby Foster
2018-01-08 03:16:38 UTC
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Reminds me of this article:
https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/bharry/2017/05/24/the-largest-git-repo-on-the-planet/

"As a refresher, the Windows code base is approximately 3.5M files and,
when checked in to a Git repo, results in a repo of about 300GB... Before
the move to Git, in Source Depot, it was spread across 40+ depots and we
had a tool to manage operations that spanned them."`
Post by Lari Rasku
Post by Lari Rasku
Post by Stuart Henderson
Hosting a large git repository is not trivial, it uses far more server
resources (memory and cpu time) than an anoncvs/cvsync/rsync mirror, and
OpenBSD src/ (or even just ports/) is *huge* for a git repo. It works
better on Linux where things are more separated. Even *just the kernel*
is split across multiple repos.
The Linux kernel repo is multiple times the size of OpenBSD-src [1],
so I don't see how things being more separated helps them re: hosting.
Perhaps kernel.org just has more hardware to throw at the problem?
And in case anyone else was confused, the Linux kernel itself isn't split
across multiple repos: you can build a fully functional one from a single
checkout. It is the kernel *development* that is split across multiple
repos, with occasional merges to mainline.
[1]: Naive estimate based on comparing object counts when cloning from
https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/
- 5,779,337 objects,
Ah thanks, I didn't manage to track that down with the 850 others :)
Post by Lari Rasku
https://github.com/openbsd/src - 1,741,047 objects.
When I've tried converting in the past I've had things like it taking
about a minute to do a git log, even after the git repack that people
familiar with git suggested I try.
Post by Lari Rasku
Post by Stuart Henderson
Anyway, has anyone fetched your openbsd-src0-test repo from github while
crossing crypto export boundaries? That has the exact same issue,
except that now as it's your repo, it may well be considered that it's
*you* that is responsible for exporting it.
Surely the responsibility for exporting lies with the one doing the
checkout? Otherwise I don't see how operators of OpenBSD CVS mirrors
in the US aren't in the same position.
Or is there some technical distinction between "mirroring" and "checking
out"
Post by Lari Rasku
a repository? (I ask because the warning against fetching sources from
USA
Post by Lari Rasku
when located outside North America only appears on
https://www.openbsd.org/cvsync.html, not https://www.openbsd.org/
anoncvs.html
Post by Lari Rasku
or https://www.openbsd.org/ftp.html.)
I don't know all the details. But the github page about it at
https://help.github.com/articles/github-and-export-controls/
makes it sound like it's the repo owner's responsibility to me.
Lari Rasku
2018-01-09 19:58:04 UTC
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Post by Lari Rasku
The Linux kernel repo is multiple times the size of OpenBSD-src [1],
[1]: Naive estimate based on comparing object counts when cloning from
https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/ - 5,779,337 objects,
https://github.com/openbsd/src - 1,741,047 objects.
I need to correct myself here. The naive estimate is misleading: I took
some time today to clone both repositories in full and found that a full
checkout of openbsd/src weights in at 953 MiB, and linux.git at 1.1 GiB
(obtained by running du -sh on the .git directory). So the difference
isn't as overwhelming as just counting objects would suggest. (Surprising
to see that the average OpenBSD Git object is almost thrice the size of a
Linux one, though.)
Ingo Schwarze
2018-01-09 20:17:38 UTC
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Hi,
(Surprising to see that the average OpenBSD Git object is almost
thrice the size of a Linux one, though.)
Comparing apples with oranges: Linux is a kernel, OpenBSD src
contains userland.

Linux-land stuff is famous for excessive abstraction.
OpenBSD values simplicity and avoids abstraction where possible.
I wouldn't be surprised if that results in larger files actually
doing some real work and in a lesser amount of shallow scaffolding.
Pure speculation, though, spending time to find out for real is hardly
worthwhile, i think.

Yours,
Ingo

Jordan Geoghegan
2017-12-29 19:58:26 UTC
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This doesn't make sense. This seems like a whole lot of effort for very
little return. What is wrong with any of the ~dozen cvs mirrors
available that aren't located in the states? This seems like a huge
duplication of effort.

Why not do some testing to find the speediest mirror relative to your
location, and then use all the extra effort you saved on something more
productive?
Post by Dinesh Thirumurthy
Dear Everyone,
You could try https://notabug.org/, which is Dutch-owned and hosted in
Germany. Note larger repositories (>100 Mb) are accepted per-case.
I have requested notabug.org to provide 1GB space for openbsd src git repo.
It would be good to demonstrate that that you also want this idea
implemented.
So, kindly help by voting Yes to my online poll.
The poll is at https://doodle.com/poll/rbg53x3dyd7i4y5d
Thanks very much.
Regards,
Dinesh Thirumurthy
Theo de Raadt
2017-12-29 20:12:03 UTC
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Dinesh --

everything you say below is a giganic pile of dung. We make all our
software available to everyone. The internet spans the planet.

You are making stuff up, and it is not appreciated how you appear to
be misrepresenting the project.

Please go fluff up your sense of selfworth elsewhere.
Post by Dinesh Thirumurthy
OpenBSD is great project. It should reach every country equally.
That is called "Parity". Rest of the world is at par with USA and Canada.
Have a look at this picture today
https://github.com/hakrtech/readme/blob/master/global-outlook.png
If you provide git protocol access to USA and Canada.
I want git protocol access for Australia, Russia, Japan, Congo, Netherlands
and Rest of the World.
If you give Mr.Tom at San Francisco git access to src,
and Mr. Dick at Vancouver git access to src,
then Harry at London should also have equal or equivalent access.
Since we cannot provide equal access. Provide equivalent access. Simple
Idea Really.
Equivalent implies get a non US box up and running with git hosting of
openbsd src.
Currently, we are telling Mr.Harry, - You should not access src via our git
channel.
People in other countries have forked and cloned. Give them/us/me another
box
where we can get legally too via the same protocol.
Parity. Good idea.
Kindly think this over.
Dinesh
Post by Michael Hekeler
Post by Dinesh Thirumurthy
So, kindly help by voting Yes to my online poll.
The poll is "We want an OpenBSD Source Repository"????
Really???
But there are multiple source code mirrors.
Even anoncvs.ca.openbsd.org isn't located in US.
German mirrors are located in nuernberg and frankfurt.
Kai Wetlesen
2017-12-29 23:16:23 UTC
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Dinesh,

Short answer: No.

Long answer: I speak on behalf of myself only. Just what exactly is wrong
with the already existing CVS? Why is a Git repo required?

Learn CVS, then teach it to your students.

~Kai
Post by Dinesh Thirumurthy
Dear Everyone,
You could try https://notabug.org/, which is Dutch-owned and hosted in
Germany. Note larger repositories (>100 Mb) are accepted per-case.
I have requested notabug.org to provide 1GB space for openbsd src git repo.
It would be good to demonstrate that that you also want this idea
implemented.
So, kindly help by voting Yes to my online poll.
The poll is at https://doodle.com/poll/rbg53x3dyd7i4y5d
Thanks very much.
Regards,
Dinesh Thirumurthy
Josh Stephens
2017-12-29 23:50:07 UTC
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Dinesh

Can you not host your own git server and just do a nightly cvs import into that git server? Or am i missing something here to this conversation?

Sent from my iPhone
Post by Kai Wetlesen
Dinesh,
Short answer: No.
Long answer: I speak on behalf of myself only. Just what exactly is wrong
with the already existing CVS? Why is a Git repo required?
Learn CVS, then teach it to your students.
~Kai
Post by Dinesh Thirumurthy
Dear Everyone,
You could try https://notabug.org/, which is Dutch-owned and hosted in
Germany. Note larger repositories (>100 Mb) are accepted per-case.
I have requested notabug.org to provide 1GB space for openbsd src git repo.
It would be good to demonstrate that that you also want this idea
implemented.
So, kindly help by voting Yes to my online poll.
The poll is at https://doodle.com/poll/rbg53x3dyd7i4y5d
Thanks very much.
Regards,
Dinesh Thirumurthy
Consus
2017-12-30 08:37:58 UTC
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Post by Dinesh Thirumurthy
Dear Everyone,
You could try https://notabug.org/, which is Dutch-owned and hosted in
Germany. Note larger repositories (>100 Mb) are accepted per-case.
I have requested notabug.org to provide 1GB space for openbsd src git repo.
It would be good to demonstrate that that you also want this idea
implemented.
So, kindly help by voting Yes to my online poll.
The poll is at https://doodle.com/poll/rbg53x3dyd7i4y5d
Thanks very much.
There is a github mirror already, nah?
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