Discussion:
Virtualbox vs latest snapshot
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csszep
2018-04-10 08:50:27 UTC
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Hi!

I installed the latest 04.10 snapshot, the install procedure went fine, but
after reboot the VM stucks at endless boot loop .

It prints only the "booting hda0:/bsd" line.. before reboot

The 04.03 snapshot works fine.

There is a similar experience for someone with Virtualbox 5.2.8?
Kevin Chadwick
2018-04-10 09:51:30 UTC
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On Tue, 10 Apr 2018 10:50:27 +0200
Post by csszep
There is a similar experience for someone with Virtualbox 5.2.8?
Hasn't Virtualbox always sucked. When I used Linux as one of my
workstation desktops many moons ago. Vmware ran OpenBSD fast, nicely and
easily.

Any of KVM/Xen/Vmware/Hyper-V are more accurate emulators of hardware!
csszep
2018-04-10 09:09:33 UTC
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Hi!

I'm using Virtualbox for years with OpenBSD guest without any serious
issue. But of course maybe it's a Virtualbox bug.

thx
csszep
Post by Kevin Chadwick
On Tue, 10 Apr 2018 10:50:27 +0200
Post by csszep
There is a similar experience for someone with Virtualbox 5.2.8?
Hasn't Virtualbox always sucked. When I used Linux as one of my
workstation desktops many moons ago. Vmware ran OpenBSD fast, nicely and
easily.
Any of KVM/Xen/Vmware/Hyper-V are more accurate emulators of hardware!
Kevin Chadwick
2018-04-10 10:58:29 UTC
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On Tue, 10 Apr 2018 11:09:33 +0200
Post by csszep
Hi!
I'm using Virtualbox for years with OpenBSD guest without any serious
issue. But of course maybe it's a Virtualbox bug.
OK, good luck but bear in mind that Virtualbox once thought it was a
good idea to try to patch the running kernel.

https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=133210764423153&w=2
csszep
2018-04-10 10:30:30 UTC
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Yes with pure sw virtualization. With hardware virtualization enabled
(vt-x,amd-v) not do it, and amd64 guests recommends hw virtualization.
Anyway thanks, for the answers., i just want to know if i only have a
problem.

Thx
csszep
Post by Kevin Chadwick
On Tue, 10 Apr 2018 11:09:33 +0200
Post by csszep
Hi!
I'm using Virtualbox for years with OpenBSD guest without any serious
issue. But of course maybe it's a Virtualbox bug.
OK, good luck but bear in mind that Virtualbox once thought it was a
good idea to try to patch the running kernel.
https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=133210764423153&w=2
Janne Johansson
2018-04-10 09:26:44 UTC
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Yes, same here. First boot after update to Apr10 snap worked, then
fw_update and pkg_add -u and so on, and now it immediately reboots after
loading the kernel from the bootloader.
Post by csszep
Hi!
I installed the latest 04.10 snapshot, the install procedure went fine, but
after reboot the VM stucks at endless boot loop .
It prints only the "booting hda0:/bsd" line.. before reboot
The 04.03 snapshot works fine.
There is a similar experience for someone with Virtualbox 5.2.8?
--
May the most significant bit of your life be positive.
Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado
2018-04-10 13:27:32 UTC
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Post by Janne Johansson
Yes, same here. First boot after update to Apr10 snap worked, then
fw_update and pkg_add -u and so on, and now it immediately reboots after
loading the kernel from the bootloader.
Maybe a stupid idea, but can you both try changing the settings to a
different OS (like Linux 64 bits or Windows) or changing the hypervisor
to KVM or Hyper-V?.
Post by Janne Johansson
Post by csszep
Hi!
I installed the latest 04.10 snapshot, the install procedure went fine, but
after reboot the VM stucks at endless boot loop .
It prints only the "booting hda0:/bsd" line.. before reboot
The 04.03 snapshot works fine.
There is a similar experience for someone with Virtualbox 5.2.8?
--
May the most significant bit of your life be positive.
--
Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado http://juanfra.info
David Higgs
2018-04-10 21:21:46 UTC
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On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 9:27 AM, Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado <
Post by Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado
Post by Janne Johansson
Yes, same here. First boot after update to Apr10 snap worked, then
fw_update and pkg_add -u and so on, and now it immediately reboots after
loading the kernel from the bootloader.
Maybe a stupid idea, but can you both try changing the settings to a
different OS (like Linux 64 bits or Windows) or changing the hypervisor
to KVM or Hyper-V?.
Was experiencing the same issue, but now appears to be fixed as of snapshot
#151 dated April 10.

--david
Post by Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado
Post by Janne Johansson
Post by csszep
Hi!
I installed the latest 04.10 snapshot, the install procedure went
fine, but
Post by Janne Johansson
Post by csszep
after reboot the VM stucks at endless boot loop .
It prints only the "booting hda0:/bsd" line.. before reboot
The 04.03 snapshot works fine.
There is a similar experience for someone with Virtualbox 5.2.8?
--
May the most significant bit of your life be positive.
--
Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado http://juanfra.info
David Higgs
2018-04-10 21:39:18 UTC
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Post by David Higgs
On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 9:27 AM, Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado <
Post by Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado
Post by Janne Johansson
Yes, same here. First boot after update to Apr10 snap worked, then
fw_update and pkg_add -u and so on, and now it immediately reboots after
loading the kernel from the bootloader.
Maybe a stupid idea, but can you both try changing the settings to a
different OS (like Linux 64 bits or Windows) or changing the hypervisor
to KVM or Hyper-V?.
Was experiencing the same issue, but now appears to be fixed as of
snapshot #151 dated April 10.
Sorry for any confusion, I spoke too soon. What I ACTUALLY did was booted
#151 from the snapshot cd63.iso.

Virtualbox hard drive currently reports BOOT 3.34, will not load bsd or
bsd.rd.
cd63.iso uses CDBOOT 3.29, appears to boot everything fine.

Suspect the problem is with this boot code, but I do not have the expertise
to diagnose further. Hope this helps.

--david
Post by David Higgs
Post by Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado
Post by Janne Johansson
Post by csszep
Hi!
I installed the latest 04.10 snapshot, the install procedure went
fine, but
Post by Janne Johansson
Post by csszep
after reboot the VM stucks at endless boot loop .
It prints only the "booting hda0:/bsd" line.. before reboot
The 04.03 snapshot works fine.
There is a similar experience for someone with Virtualbox 5.2.8?
--
May the most significant bit of your life be positive.
--
Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado http://juanfra.info
Stuart Henderson
2018-04-10 22:50:28 UTC
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Post by csszep
Hi!
I installed the latest 04.10 snapshot, the install procedure went fine, but
after reboot the VM stucks at endless boot loop .
It prints only the "booting hda0:/bsd" line.. before reboot
The 04.03 snapshot works fine.
There is a similar experience for someone with Virtualbox 5.2.8?
There's a recent bootloader problem, possibly following the update
to clang 6, that affects some machines. I suspect this might be
involved here.

To confirm if this is the problem, can you install the older
snapshot as normal, then update kernel and file sets to the newer
one? (follow the "Upgrade without the install kernel" steps on
http://www.openbsd.org/faq/upgrade63.html, except skip the part
about running installboot do install a new bootloader).

Can you report back either way please (preferably to bugs@, with
dmesg and anything special about the VM config).. If it is the
same thing it would be useful for developers to have a way to
reproduce the problem that doesn't involve specific hardware..
Richard Toohey
2018-04-11 00:08:39 UTC
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Post by Stuart Henderson
Post by csszep
Hi!
I installed the latest 04.10 snapshot, the install procedure went fine, but
after reboot the VM stucks at endless boot loop .
It prints only the "booting hda0:/bsd" line.. before reboot
The 04.03 snapshot works fine.
There is a similar experience for someone with Virtualbox 5.2.8?
There's a recent bootloader problem, possibly following the update
to clang 6, that affects some machines. I suspect this might be
involved here.
Ah, that might (?) explain what was happening to me with a Lenovo
Thinkpad X1 Carbon?

Not a VM.

Stuck in an endless boot loop, with a flash of a "heap full" message
before the next reboot.

Tried the same snapshot on an older Thinkpad and no issues.

Looked like it was a possible SSD problem (from what I could find in the
archives), so I tried the 6.3 installer and that was fine.

Repeated the snapshot install and got back into the endless rebooting.
Post by Stuart Henderson
To confirm if this is the problem, can you install the older
snapshot as normal, then update kernel and file sets to the newer
one? (follow the "Upgrade without the install kernel" steps on
http://www.openbsd.org/faq/upgrade63.html, except skip the part
about running installboot do install a new bootloader).
dmesg and anything special about the VM config).. If it is the
same thing it would be useful for developers to have a way to
reproduce the problem that doesn't involve specific hardware..
Stuart Henderson
2018-04-11 09:02:08 UTC
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Post by Richard Toohey
Post by Stuart Henderson
Post by csszep
Hi!
I installed the latest 04.10 snapshot, the install procedure went fine, but
after reboot the VM stucks at endless boot loop .
It prints only the "booting hda0:/bsd" line.. before reboot
The 04.03 snapshot works fine.
There is a similar experience for someone with Virtualbox 5.2.8?
There's a recent bootloader problem, possibly following the update
to clang 6, that affects some machines. I suspect this might be
involved here.
Ah, that might (?) explain what was happening to me with a Lenovo
Thinkpad X1 Carbon?
Not a VM.
Stuck in an endless boot loop, with a flash of a "heap full" message
before the next reboot.
Tried the same snapshot on an older Thinkpad and no issues.
Looked like it was a possible SSD problem (from what I could find in the
archives), so I tried the 6.3 installer and that was fine.
Repeated the snapshot install and got back into the endless rebooting.
"heap full" is the known failure mode but I suspect that Virtualbox
might have a slightly different failure but due to the same issue.
Nick Holland
2018-04-12 12:28:14 UTC
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Another "failure mode" of VirtualBox people should be aware of:
I understand through good sources, Oracle monitors the IP addresses that
it's downloaded from, and if they can trace it back to a commercial IP
(i.e., not a home address), and if they see you download (or update) the
"not for unrestricted free use" parts, their lawyers will contact you
and send you a bill...and they really don't care about "for work" or
"not for work related" uses.

I'd really recommend removing this product from your computers.

Nick.
Consus
2018-04-12 13:47:18 UTC
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Post by Nick Holland
I understand through good sources, Oracle monitors the IP addresses that
it's downloaded from, and if they can trace it back to a commercial IP
(i.e., not a home address), and if they see you download (or update) the
"not for unrestricted free use" parts, their lawyers will contact you
and send you a bill...and they really don't care about "for work" or
"not for work related" uses.
I'd really recommend removing this product from your computers.
This won't stand in court. You sources are so high on crack it's not
even funny.
Nick Holland
2018-04-13 01:02:15 UTC
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Post by Consus
Post by Nick Holland
I understand through good sources, Oracle monitors the IP addresses that
it's downloaded from, and if they can trace it back to a commercial IP
(i.e., not a home address), and if they see you download (or update) the
"not for unrestricted free use" parts, their lawyers will contact you
and send you a bill...and they really don't care about "for work" or
"not for work related" uses.
I'd really recommend removing this product from your computers.
This won't stand in court. You sources are so high on crack it's not
even funny.
Think about it a moment,
Using my real name, and a public, trackable identity, I just accused a
very big company with lots of lawyers (and they know how to use them!)
of something. If my facts are not in order, I could be in big trouble.
My facts are in order.

It's not about court. It's about threatening lots of companies and
hoping a few pay up to avoid the cost of going to court -- which is
considerable, win or lose.

What you believe changes nothing. Their licenses are complicated, easy
to use wrong, and they seem to care. I recommend against using their
products for that reason.

Nick.
Adam Thompson
2018-04-26 17:43:21 UTC
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Post by Nick Holland
Post by Consus
Post by Nick Holland
I understand through good sources, Oracle monitors the IP addresses that
it's downloaded from, and if they can trace it back to a commercial IP
(i.e., not a home address), and if they see you download (or update) the
"not for unrestricted free use" parts, their lawyers will contact you
and send you a bill...and they really don't care about "for work" or
"not for work related" uses.
I'd really recommend removing this product from your computers.
This won't stand in court. You sources are so high on crack it's not
even funny.
Think about it a moment,
Using my real name, and a public, trackable identity, I just accused a
very big company with lots of lawyers (and they know how to use them!)
of something. If my facts are not in order, I could be in big trouble.
My facts are in order.
It's not about court. It's about threatening lots of companies and
hoping a few pay up to avoid the cost of going to court -- which is
considerable, win or lose.
What you believe changes nothing. Their licenses are complicated, easy
to use wrong, and they seem to care. I recommend against using their
products for that reason.
Nick.
My tale of Oracle woe:

My company got spanked by Oracle a couple of years ago because one of
our developers was downloading multiple versions of the RDBMS, trying to
find a version that would be happy with a binary database file we got
from a client.
Their License Enforcement dept. (it's part of the Sales division, which
tells you something...) undertook a sneaky campaign of phoning all our
staff asking them how they were satisfied with their Oracle products.
They finally audited us, and - not for the products that dev was
downloading, but for something else entirely - it turned out we were
accidentally in violation of one of our licenses, as one sentence had
changed somewhere in the ~20yrs we'd been using it to invalidate our use
case.
Since it was not intentional, and we were cooperating with them, and we
are very small (~10 persons, at the time) they ONLY required a top-up
payment roughly equal to 1 developer's annual salary.
The threat of being sued out of existence, if we didn't cooperate, was
made explicitly. We were, in my opinion, deliberately maneuvered into a
non-compliant position over a period of many years, then subject to a
"sting" operation, and finally bullied into compliance.

And we also use VirtualBox :-(. For now.

It's notable that at least in Canada, BSA (MS,Adobe,Sybase,etc.,etc.)
audits are legal - and are often accompanied by provincial Sheriffs.
(Not the same thing as a U.S Sheriff, but still a law enforcement
officer.) The threat of legal action is NOT just an empty threat.

-Adam
Boudewijn Dijkstra
2018-04-13 07:30:15 UTC
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Post by Consus
Post by Nick Holland
I understand through good sources, Oracle monitors the IP addresses that
it's downloaded from, and if they can trace it back to a commercial IP
(i.e., not a home address), and if they see you download (or update) the
"not for unrestricted free use" parts, their lawyers will contact you
and send you a bill...and they really don't care about "for work" or
"not for work related" uses.
I'd really recommend removing this product from your computers.
This won't stand in court. You sources are so high on crack it's not
even funny.
The point is not to go to court, the point is to bully people into paying
up.
--
Gemaakt met Opera's e-mailprogramma: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Consus
2018-04-13 09:11:08 UTC
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Post by Boudewijn Dijkstra
The point is not to go to court, the point is to bully people into
paying up.
Well, this reminds me of Nigerian Emails. Have someone actually payed
them? Cause seriously, you can just reply them with a goatse picture
attached. Even goatse has more legal matter in it.
Boudewijn Dijkstra
2018-04-12 13:05:21 UTC
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Op Thu, 12 Apr 2018 14:28:14 +0200 schreef Nick Holland
Post by Nick Holland
I understand through good sources, Oracle monitors the IP addresses that
it's downloaded from, and if they can trace it back to a commercial IP
(i.e., not a home address), and if they see you download (or update) the
"not for unrestricted free use" parts, their lawyers will contact you
and send you a bill...and they really don't care about "for work" or
"not for work related" uses.
I suppose this only works if you have your own netblock. Otherwise they
cannot know the legal entity behind an IP-address. Except in totalitarian
states I guess.
Post by Nick Holland
I'd really recommend removing this product from your computers.
By which you mean the Oracle VM VirtualBox Extension Pack, presumably.
--
Gemaakt met Opera's e-mailprogramma: http://www.opera.com/mail/
David Higgs
2018-04-19 01:38:08 UTC
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Post by Stuart Henderson
Post by csszep
Hi!
I installed the latest 04.10 snapshot, the install procedure went fine,
but
Post by csszep
after reboot the VM stucks at endless boot loop .
It prints only the "booting hda0:/bsd" line.. before reboot
The 04.03 snapshot works fine.
There is a similar experience for someone with Virtualbox 5.2.8?
There's a recent bootloader problem, possibly following the update
to clang 6, that affects some machines. I suspect this might be
involved here.
To confirm if this is the problem, can you install the older
snapshot as normal, then update kernel and file sets to the newer
one? (follow the "Upgrade without the install kernel" steps on
http://www.openbsd.org/faq/upgrade63.html, except skip the part
about running installboot do install a new bootloader).
dmesg and anything special about the VM config).. If it is the
same thing it would be useful for developers to have a way to
reproduce the problem that doesn't involve specific hardware..
FWIW, I noticed that the latest snapshot installed BOOT 3.39, which booted
kernels in VirtualBox just fine for me.

Thanks again.

--david
faisal saadatmand
2018-04-11 06:58:04 UTC
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Thank you, Stuart, for the instructions. I have been suffering from
the same issue as well since April 6: all subsequent snapshots failed
to boot on virtualbox. I also was able to reproduce the problem in
qemu. Interestingly, like Richard, I, too, am using a Thinkpad X1
Carbon; however, openbsd is running in a vm. In any case, I reported
the issue to bugs@

best,
cdude
Rupert Gallagher
2018-04-26 21:29:34 UTC
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Try qemu.
Better software.
Better license.

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
Hi! I installed the latest 04.10 snapshot, the install procedure went fine, but after reboot the VM stucks at endless boot loop . It prints only the "booting hda0:/bsd" line.. before reboot The 04.03 snapshot works fine. There is a similar experience for someone with Virtualbox 5.2.8?
IL Ka
2018-04-26 22:28:11 UTC
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Latest snapshot running on 5.2.8 @win7x64 (everything works and seems to be
stable)
Do you use GPT or MBR?
Is it SATA or PATA/IDE?

Can you boot your hda0:/bsd from cd?
Can you boot from CD, mount drive and fsck it?


xx:2$ dmesg
OpenBSD 6.3-current (GENERIC) #13: Thu Apr 26 07:46:22 MDT 2018
***@amd64.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/amd64/compile/GENERIC
real mem = 1056899072 (1007MB)
avail mem = 1017061376 (969MB)
mpath0 at root
scsibus0 at mpath0: 256 targets
mainbus0 at root
bios0 at mainbus0: SMBIOS rev. 2.5 @ 0xe1000 (10 entries)
bios0: vendor innotek GmbH version "VirtualBox" date 12/01/2006
bios0: innotek GmbH VirtualBox
acpi0 at bios0: rev 2
acpi0: sleep states S0 S5
acpi0: tables DSDT FACP APIC SSDT
acpi0: wakeup devices
acpitimer0 at acpi0: 3579545 Hz, 32 bits
acpimadt0 at acpi0 addr 0xfee00000: PC-AT compat
cpu0 at mainbus0: apid 0 (boot processor)
cpu0: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770K CPU @ 3.50GHz, 3492.51 MHz
cpu0:
FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SSE3,PCLMUL,MWAIT,SSSE3,CX16,PCID,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,POPCNT,AES,XSAVE,AVX,RDRAND,NXE,RDTSCP,LONG,LAHF,ITSC,FSGSBASE,MELTDOWN
cpu0: 256KB 64b/line 8-way L2 cache
cpu0: smt 0, core 0, package 0
mtrr: CPU supports MTRRs but not enabled by BIOS
cpu0: apic clock running at 1000MHz
cpu0: mwait min=64, max=64
ioapic0 at mainbus0: apid 1 pa 0xfec00000, version 20, 24 pins
, remapped to apid 1
acpiprt0 at acpi0: bus 0 (PCI0)
acpicpu0 at acpi0: C1(@1 halt!)
acpiac0 at acpi0: AC unit online
acpivideo0 at acpi0: GFX0
pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0
pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 "Intel 82441FX" rev 0x02
pcib0 at pci0 dev 1 function 0 "Intel 82371SB ISA" rev 0x00
pciide0 at pci0 dev 1 function 1 "Intel 82371AB IDE" rev 0x01: DMA, channel
0 configured to compatibility, channel 1 configured to compatibility
atapiscsi0 at pciide0 channel 0 drive 0
scsibus1 at atapiscsi0: 2 targets
cd0 at scsibus1 targ 0 lun 0: <VBOX, CD-ROM, 1.0> ATAPI 5/cdrom removable
wd0 at pciide0 channel 0 drive 1: <VBOX HARDDISK>
wd0: 128-sector PIO, LBA, 20480MB, 41943040 sectors
cd0(pciide0:0:0): using PIO mode 4, Ultra-DMA mode 2
wd0(pciide0:0:1): using PIO mode 4, Ultra-DMA mode 2
pciide0: channel 1 disabled (no drives)
vga1 at pci0 dev 2 function 0 "InnoTek VirtualBox Graphics Adapter" rev 0x00
wsdisplay0 at vga1 mux 1: console (80x25, vt100 emulation)
wsdisplay0: screen 1-5 added (80x25, vt100 emulation)
em0 at pci0 dev 3 function 0 "Intel 82540EM" rev 0x02: apic 1 int 19,
address 08:00:27:7d:19:91
"InnoTek VirtualBox Guest Service" rev 0x00 at pci0 dev 4 function 0 not
configured
auich0 at pci0 dev 5 function 0 "Intel 82801AA AC97" rev 0x01: apic 1 int
21, ICH
ac97: codec id 0x83847600 (SigmaTel STAC9700)
audio0 at auich0
ohci0 at pci0 dev 6 function 0 "Apple Intrepid USB" rev 0x00: apic 1 int
22, version 1.0
piixpm0 at pci0 dev 7 function 0 "Intel 82371AB Power" rev 0x08: apic 1 int
23
iic0 at piixpm0
isa0 at pcib0
isadma0 at isa0
com0 at isa0 port 0x3f8/8 irq 4: ns16550a, 16 byte fifo
pckbc0 at isa0 port 0x60/5 irq 1 irq 12
pckbd0 at pckbc0 (kbd slot)
wskbd0 at pckbd0: console keyboard, using wsdisplay0
pms0 at pckbc0 (aux slot)
wsmouse0 at pms0 mux 0
pcppi0 at isa0 port 0x61
spkr0 at pcppi0
usb0 at ohci0: USB revision 1.0
uhub0 at usb0 configuration 1 interface 0 "Apple OHCI root hub" rev
1.00/1.00 addr 1
uhidev0 at uhub0 port 1 configuration 1 interface 0 "VirtualBox USB Tablet"
rev 1.10/1.00 addr 2
uhidev0: iclass 3/0
ums0 at uhidev0: 5 buttons, Z and W dir
wsmouse1 at ums0 mux 0
vscsi0 at root
scsibus2 at vscsi0: 256 targets
softraid0 at root
scsibus3 at softraid0: 256 targets
root on wd0a (c157cae92dc08f0c.a) swap on wd0b dump on wd0b
xx:3$
Hi! I installed the latest 04.10 snapshot, the install procedure went
fine, but after reboot the VM stucks at endless boot loop . It prints only
the "booting hda0:/bsd" line.. before reboot The 04.03 snapshot works fine.
There is a similar experience for someone with Virtualbox 5.2.8?
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