Discussion:
No Java in OpenBSD
Karel Kulhavy
2006-07-11 10:26:29 UTC
Permalink
I appreciate there is no Java in OpenBSD. I searched for java, jre, jdk,
j2se, sun, blackdown and ibm in the packages and didn't find anything.

I understand why - presumably because Java is not a free software.

This is very handy - I don't have to waste time with Java programs, which are
usually broken anyway, and sometimes trash the machine with of denial of
service attack on CPU and memory. Now I can focus on more productive things
than Java programs. I just need to find an alternative program for the given
task that doesn't rely on non-free software to be able to run.

The fact that something doesn't run on OpenBSD already proven to be handy
several times. I needed to run Lotus Notes which is not possible so I had
to put it on a Linux server, which is faster. I don't like the Lotus Notes
but I have to work with them. This way it's faster and Lotus Notes don't
crash when I switch virtual desktop. They also don't take memory and disk
and attack a different CPU than mine :)

The same with the program Inventory I used for TODO list. It segfaulted because
was written badly. On Linux it runs OK. I was forced to find a text-mode todo
which is more suited to the task. And I don't have to run a MySQL server for
that.

I also appreciate there is no suspend to disk or ram. On Linux it used to cause
problems - the CPU switched to lower speeds, the keyboard in X crashed, and
when one closed the lid and reopened quickly, it took many minutes to recover
from hysterical suspend-wake cycles. Now I just run shutdown and have benefits
like:
- if I wait on platform and a train comes, I just close the lid and don't
have to wait for wake up in the train
- I can switch to external LCD and turn off the internal LCD easily by putting
a chip from old CDROM over the lid sensor.

Some people whine that on OpenBSD nothing runs, but I think this is actually an
advantage. This way the user is forced to work with the properly implemented
things and doesn't have to waste time with crap.

CL<
Guido Tschakert
2006-07-11 10:58:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karel Kulhavy
I appreciate there is no Java in OpenBSD. I searched for java, jre, jdk,
j2se, sun, blackdown and ibm in the packages and didn't find anything.
I understand why - presumably because Java is not a free software.
Hmm, go read the faqs

http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq13.html#javaflash

Not everything in ports exist as a package (mostly due to license problems)

guido
Post by Karel Kulhavy
This is very handy - I don't have to waste time with Java programs, which are
usually broken anyway, and sometimes trash the machine with of denial of
service attack on CPU and memory. Now I can focus on more productive things
than Java programs. I just need to find an alternative program for the given
task that doesn't rely on non-free software to be able to run.
The fact that something doesn't run on OpenBSD already proven to be handy
several times. I needed to run Lotus Notes which is not possible so I had
to put it on a Linux server, which is faster. I don't like the Lotus Notes
but I have to work with them. This way it's faster and Lotus Notes don't
crash when I switch virtual desktop. They also don't take memory and disk
and attack a different CPU than mine :)
The same with the program Inventory I used for TODO list. It segfaulted because
was written badly. On Linux it runs OK. I was forced to find a text-mode todo
which is more suited to the task. And I don't have to run a MySQL server for
that.
I also appreciate there is no suspend to disk or ram. On Linux it used to cause
problems - the CPU switched to lower speeds, the keyboard in X crashed, and
when one closed the lid and reopened quickly, it took many minutes to recover
from hysterical suspend-wake cycles. Now I just run shutdown and have benefits
- if I wait on platform and a train comes, I just close the lid and don't
have to wait for wake up in the train
- I can switch to external LCD and turn off the internal LCD easily by putting
a chip from old CDROM over the lid sensor.
Some people whine that on OpenBSD nothing runs, but I think this is actually an
advantage. This way the user is forced to work with the properly implemented
things and doesn't have to waste time with crap.
CL<
--
Mit freundlichen Gr|_en,

Guido Tschakert

_____________________________________________________

SRC Security Research & Consulting GmbH
Graurheindorfer Str. 149 a Tel: +49-228-2806-138
53117 Bonn Fax: +49-228-2806-199
http://www.src-gmbh.de Mob: +49-160-3671422
David Elze
2006-07-11 10:55:36 UTC
Permalink
Am Dienstag, den 11.07.2006, 12:26 +0200 schrieb Karel Kulhavy:

Hi,
Post by Karel Kulhavy
I appreciate there is no Java in OpenBSD. I searched for java, jre, jdk,
j2se, sun, blackdown and ibm in the packages and didn't find anything.
http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq8.html#Programming
http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq15.html#Ports
--> /usr/ports/devel/jdk/

No need for appreciation ;-)

CU
David
--
David Elze Tel: (+49)(0)441 - 36116410
***@bytemine.net Fax: (+49)(0)441 - 36116419
http://www.bytemine.net/ PGP/GPG: 5F83FEA2
bytemine - Entwicklungsmanufaktur fuer innovative Loesungen

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Andrew Pinski
2006-07-11 10:56:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karel Kulhavy
I appreciate there is no Java in OpenBSD. I searched for java, jre, jdk,
j2se, sun, blackdown and ibm in the packages and didn't find anything.
You could just port kaffe or gcj to OpenBSD, I think kaffe already runs
on OpenBSD, though there is no official port in OpenBSD itself.

Thanks,
Andrew Pinski
A GCC developer
Andreas Kahari
2006-07-11 11:59:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Pinski
Post by Karel Kulhavy
I appreciate there is no Java in OpenBSD. I searched for java, jre, jdk,
j2se, sun, blackdown and ibm in the packages and didn't find anything.
You could just port kaffe or gcj to OpenBSD, I think kaffe already runs
on OpenBSD, though there is no official port in OpenBSD itself.
There is a port for kaffe in lang/kaffe.
--
Andreas Kahari
Somewhere in the general Cambridge area, UK
Henning Brauer
2006-07-11 12:04:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Pinski
Post by Karel Kulhavy
I appreciate there is no Java in OpenBSD. I searched for java, jre, jdk,
j2se, sun, blackdown and ibm in the packages and didn't find anything.
You could just port kaffe or gcj to OpenBSD, I think kaffe already runs
on OpenBSD, though there is no official port in OpenBSD itself.
actually, there is. ports/lang/kaffe
--
BS Web Services, http://www.bsws.de/
OpenBSD-based Webhosting, Mail Services, Managed Servers, ...
Unix is very simple, but it takes a genius to understand the simplicity.
(Dennis Ritchie)
Jonathan Black
2006-07-11 13:30:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karel Kulhavy
The fact that something doesn't run on OpenBSD already proven to be
handy several times. I needed to run Lotus Notes which is not possible
so I had to put it on a Linux server, which is faster. I don't like
the Lotus Notes but I have to work with them. This way it's faster and
Lotus Notes don't crash when I switch virtual desktop. They also don't
take memory and disk and attack a different CPU than mine :)
The fact that you can save local resources by running a program on a
remote machine has little to do with weather or not that program can run
on OpenBSD, and certainly doesn't really make the fact that it *doesn't*
run on OpenBSD a good thing. E.g., if it *did* run on OpenBSD, you
wouldn't need to have the Linux server, it could be an OpenBSD server
too.
Post by Karel Kulhavy
I also appreciate there is no suspend to disk or ram. On Linux it used
to cause problems - the CPU switched to lower speeds, the keyboard in
X crashed, and when one closed the lid and reopened quickly, it took
many minutes to recover from hysterical suspend-wake cycles. Now I
- if I wait on platform and a train comes, I just close the lid and
don't have to wait for wake up in the train
- I can switch to external LCD and turn off the internal LCD easily by
putting a chip from old CDROM over the lid sensor.
The fact that there are certain situations where *not* suspending is
desirable for you, doesn't make suspend an undersirable feature. If the
feature was present, you wouldn't *have* to use it, or have it respond
to your lid sensor or whatever, if you didn't want to.
Post by Karel Kulhavy
Some people whine that on OpenBSD nothing runs, but I think this is
actually an advantage. This way the user is forced to work with the
properly implemented things and doesn't have to waste time with crap.
Just because something isn't currently possible in OpenBSD doesn't mean
that functionality is inherently crap. For example, reliable hibernation
capability implemented in software could be a useful feature for many
people. Pointing this out is not whining, but expressing interest in
potential future developments to the OS.

I agree with your sentiment that what does work on OpenBSD today, works
well, is generally very well implemented, and covers a lot of the needs
of most of people. I'm just suggesting that rather than declaring
everything else unnecessary or crap, there is always the possibilty of
working on improvements and new features, implemented in the same
tradition of correctness and stability. Indeed, I'm sure this is what
the developers spend a lot of their time on.
--
jonathaN
Weldon Goree
2006-07-11 12:41:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karel Kulhavy
I appreciate there is no Java in OpenBSD. I searched for java, jre, jdk,
j2se, sun, blackdown and ibm in the packages and didn't find anything.
/usr/ports/devel/jdk

subpackages are 1.3-linux (requires linux emulation; this one is needed
to boot strap the others), 1.3, 1.4, and 1.5. Flavors do include
"native_bootstrap", but to be honest I have no idea what that does
because building that flavor still required 1.3-linux.

Building it is something of a pain because Sun won't let 3rd parties
like the ports system fetch the files. You have to grab the Linux
binary, then the SCSL source, then a patchset for it (whose maintainer,
apparently, also doesn't let 3rd parties fetch it), then the SCSL
binaries, all of which involve separate license agreements *and* an
account on Sun's website whose password I can never seem to remember.
And you have to grab the correct version of the binaries, sources, and
patchsets, which are not at this moment the latest versions of them.

This, incidentally, is why non-free software is a PITA.

At any rate, it works fine for me; applets run in the native mozilla,
aqua data studio runs great, etc. So, yes, unfortunately, OpenBSD can
run horribly-written, slow, and buggy Java applications like any other
OS. I guess file a bug report to have it removed...

Weldon

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