This is what Linus Torvalds calls openBSD crowd

[Siju George]

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950

Again a mis representation in pulic?

--Siju

[STeve Andre']

Post by Siju George
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
Again a mis representation in pulic?
--Siju

Let me be the first to say--

Who cares?

I may completely disagree with him, but I'm not going to invest in a
flame fest over his comments.

To each their own.

--STeve Andre'

[(private) HKS]

++

-HKS

Post by STeve Andre'
Let me be the first to say--
Who cares?
I may completely disagree with him, but I'm not going to invest in a
flame fest over his comments.
To each their own.
--STeve Andre'

[Marcus Andree]

<snip>

Post by STeve Andre'
I may completely disagree with him, but I'm not going to invest in a
flame fest over his comments.

<snip>

Being here when Stallman started the last flame "nuclear holocaust" war,
I feel a weird sense of deja-vu right now.

[Nuno Magalhães]

Eheh he's right :-) If you guys get your heads out of your asses and
actually read his words with the use of some common sense you might
get what he means. It's a balanced opinion.

From what i've seen so far in this list, the BSD-crowd *is* "a bunch

of masturbating monkeys" anyway, i get much more decent reasonable
answers to my problems in any Debian list, along with constructive
criticism. Here it's rtfm and chest-thumping.

Flame away boys, so i can gingerly ignore you :)

[Aaron Glenn]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Nuno Magalhces

Post by Nuno Magalhães
Here it's rtfm and chest-thumping.

because here, many people have spent many hours making sure tfm gives
you all the information you need

[Amarendra Godbole]

Post by Aaron Glenn
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Nuno Magalhces

Post by Nuno Magalhães
Here it's rtfm and chest-thumping.

because here, many people have spent many hours making sure tfm gives
you all the information you need

[...]

Absolutely! I find the OpenBSD man pages to be dead accurate, and
to-the-point. Typos, and grammar are considered too!

-Amarendra

[Duncan Patton a Campbell]

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 17:29:35 +0530

Post by Amarendra Godbole

Post by Aaron Glenn
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Nuno Magalhces

Post by Nuno Magalhães
Here it's rtfm and chest-thumping.

because here, many people have spent many hours making sure tfm gives
you all the information you need

[...]
Absolutely! I find the OpenBSD man pages to be dead accurate, and
to-the-point. Typos, and grammar are considered too!
-Amarendra

This looks like about as good a place as any to stick my 3" worth in,
tho' Nick Guenther also comes close to the mark with his comments about
system "correctness". Linus is obviously worried about something of
more than passing import, and I think that he's begun to realize that
OBSD's "correctness" extends beyond code quality and technical security.

Linux is a Utopian product that carries substantial ideological baggage
rendering it's use problematic to business/commercial concerns _except_
by the largest of institutions. *BSD has a license structure that makes
it commercially safe for use by small/medium business... OpenBSD being
only the most consistent in this purpose with it's development of a genuine
engineering culture and product.

Utopian endevours all fall on their real intent to be all things to all
people, which, because of the inherent logical relationships of things like
consistency and completness, is a fruitless vanity. Such "Complete" systems
require the deep hypocrisy of limiting "everything and everyone" in order
to function at all. In political systems this is often evidenced by
"difficult" people just "disappearing" in ones and twos and droves.

Dhu (carry on in awareness!)

[Marco Peereboom]

debian users are masturbating amoebas

Post by Nuno Magalhães
Eheh he's right :-) If you guys get your heads out of your asses and
actually read his words with the use of some common sense you might
get what he means. It's a balanced opinion.
From what i've seen so far in this list, the BSD-crowd *is* "a bunch
of masturbating monkeys" anyway, i get much more decent reasonable
answers to my problems in any Debian list, along with constructive
criticism. Here it's rtfm and chest-thumping.
Flame away boys, so i can gingerly ignore you :)
--
Nuno MagalhC#es

[Almir Karic]

Post by Marco Peereboom
debian users are masturbating amoebas

is this really necessary? and if so why?

[Marco Peereboom]

Yes it is. To illustrate the stupidity and pointlessness of this all.

Linus is a troll, we know, who cares?

Post by Almir Karic

Post by Marco Peereboom
debian users are masturbating amoebas

is this really necessary? and if so why?

[Almir Karic]

Post by Marco Peereboom
Yes it is. To illustrate the stupidity and pointlessness of this all.
Linus is a troll, we know, who cares?

insulting anyone is IMHO hardly ever necessary/good, trolling (of known
folks, such as linus and rms) is (again IMHO) best ignored.

[Gregory Edigarov]

Post by Marco Peereboom
debian users are masturbating amoebas

just cannot imagine how could an amoeba jerk off....
you will certainly get a prize... :-) :-))) :)))) :D

Post by Marco Peereboom

Post by Nuno Magalhães
Eheh he's right :-) If you guys get your heads out of your asses and
actually read his words with the use of some common sense you might
get what he means. It's a balanced opinion.
From what i've seen so far in this list, the BSD-crowd *is* "a bunch
of masturbating monkeys" anyway, i get much more decent reasonable
answers to my problems in any Debian list, along with constructive
criticism. Here it's rtfm and chest-thumping.
Flame away boys, so i can gingerly ignore you :)
--
Nuno MagalhC#es

[lists]

Post by Gregory Edigarov
just cannot imagine how could an amoeba jerk off....
you will certainly get a prize... :-) :-))) :)))) :D

I try to imagine, but the amoeba splits.

Sort of like linux.


Paul.

[Steve Shockley]

From what i've seen so far in this list, the BSD-crowd *is* "a bunch
of masturbating monkeys" anyway

I'm not a monkey.

[Bob Beck]

On 16-Jul-08, at 12:14 PM, Steve Shockley

Post by Steve Shockley
I'm not a monkey.

Hey but I am! Pass the banana flavoured lube!

Oook oook oook!

Now could we return to useful conversation instead of feeding the
trolls?

-Bob

[Kevin Wilcox]

Post by Nuno Magalhães
Eheh he's right :-) If you guys get your heads out of your asses and
actually read his words with the use of some common sense you might
get what he means. It's a balanced opinion.

It's not that it isn't a balanced opinion or that he may be right or
wrong - it's that the guy was asking why they weren't following their
disclosure policy and no one has provided a sufficient answer as to
why they don't a) follow the policy or b) change the document.

Post by Nuno Magalhães
From what i've seen so far in this list, the BSD-crowd *is* "a bunch
of masturbating monkeys" anyway, i get much more decent reasonable
answers to my problems in any Debian list, along with constructive
criticism. Here it's rtfm and chest-thumping.

Coming from the GNU/Linux community I felt the same way for a while.
Then I started really looking at what my expectations were versus what
they should be.

In the Linux world I had grown used to expecting something in
particular. Despite no SLA or any other type of agreement, I expected
the community to support the distribution. When I made the change to
FreeBSD and OpenBSD, I brought those expectations with me.

Then I realised that was both selfish and foolish. Now my expectations
have changed. I expect to get an install CD and whatever swag I pay
for. Beyond that, I *hope* that if I have troubles that I can approach
the *BSD community and get some assistance but I realise that that
should never be an expectation and that I'm equally as likely to get a
"sorry, I value my time" as I am to get "you should look at the -<foo>
flag" - and that either response is ok.

Actually, allow me to correct the above. At the end of the day there
is one other expectation I have, and that is to be totally thrashed
for bringing something totally off-topic or meaningless or just plain
wrong to ***@.

Marco commented: *yawn* linus' opinion is as interesting as his relevance.

I say: +1

kmw

[Nick Guenther]

Post by Nuno Magalhães
Eheh he's right :-) If you guys get your heads out of your asses and
actually read his words with the use of some common sense you might
get what he means. It's a balanced opinion.
From what i've seen so far in this list, the BSD-crowd *is* "a bunch
of masturbating monkeys" anyway, i get much more decent reasonable
answers to my problems in any Debian list, along with constructive
criticism. Here it's rtfm and chest-thumping.
Flame away boys, so i can gingerly ignore you :)

I agree. This mailing list is an oven (and like an oven, comes out
with deliciousness in the end).

Anyway, I don't think of OpenBSD as a 'secure' system, I think of it
as a 'correct' system, and security is a side effect of that that's
good for marketing. Doesn't seem like Linus gets that. I could see
Linus' complaint better applied to SELinux or any of the thousands of
"hardened" linux distros, which try to build in security after the
fact and make a big deal of it.
-Nick

[Nick Guenther]

Post by Nick Guenther
Anyway, I don't think of OpenBSD as a 'secure' system, I think of it
as a 'correct' system, and security is a side effect of that that's
good for marketing. Doesn't seem like Linus gets that.

That's the comedy of it though, isn't it? Most bugs (security-related
or otherwise) are just incorrect programming. Squashing bugs helps to
resolve both reliability and security problems. The OpenBSD team
resolves both.. whether they're trying to fix "only security" bugs or
not is kindof irrelevant, because they're still fixing both by fixing
either.
At any rate, I gave up a long time ago caring what the Linux dorks
think about our masturbatory cult of correctness. I think these
off-comments are funny, and personally I'm all about my/our
competition using crap operating systems just because they're trendy.
Meanwhile we all get the reputation of running reliable businesses
that get shit done and aren't just fucking around.

(And some of us aren't ever planning on running businesses, but we
still are drawn by the elegance.)
(-Nick)

[Marc Espie]

Post by Nuno Magalhães
Eheh he's right :-) If you guys get your heads out of your asses and
actually read his words with the use of some common sense you might
get what he means. It's a balanced opinion.

It's a totally misinformed opinion.

Quoting

Post by Nuno Magalhães
In fact, all the boring normal bugs are _way_ more important, just because
there's a lot more of them. I don't think some spectacular security hole
should be glorified or cared about as being any more "special" than a
random spectacular crash due to bad locking.

which is exactly what people in the OpenBSD project do, all the time (fix
normal bugs). That's the proactive approach to security: don't wait until
you have an exploit, just fix the darn bug.

So, when he tries to say that the OpenBSD crowd has a different attitude,
I don't know who he's referring to, but certainly not me.

I don't think you have any idea how hard we're laughing right now.
It's just so out of touch with how we see things, it's beyond pathetic.

As you can see, my fellow developpers took it about the same way, but
with even more sarcasm...

we don't give a fuck about security for security's sake:

free, FUNCTIONAL, secure. choose all three. Says so on the T-shirt.

[Sevan / Venture37]

Don't knock masturbation; it's sex with someone I love! -Woody Allen


_________________________________________________________________
100s of Nikon cameras to be won with Live Search
http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/101719808/direct/01/

[Travers Buda]

Post by Marc Espie

Post by Nuno Magalhães
Eheh he's right :-) If you guys get your heads out of your asses and
actually read his words with the use of some common sense you might
get what he means. It's a balanced opinion.

It's a totally misinformed opinion.
Quoting

Post by Nuno Magalhães
In fact, all the boring normal bugs are _way_ more important, just because
there's a lot more of them. I don't think some spectacular security hole
should be glorified or cared about as being any more "special" than a
random spectacular crash due to bad locking.

which is exactly what people in the OpenBSD project do, all the time (fix
normal bugs). That's the proactive approach to security: don't wait until
you have an exploit, just fix the darn bug.
So, when he tries to say that the OpenBSD crowd has a different attitude,
I don't know who he's referring to, but certainly not me.
I don't think you have any idea how hard we're laughing right now.
It's just so out of touch with how we see things, it's beyond pathetic.
As you can see, my fellow developpers took it about the same way, but
with even more sarcasm...
free, FUNCTIONAL, secure. choose all three. Says so on the T-shirt.

Jah. Wow Linus, apparently making your code such that it is actually
stable and working is not a priority? Infact, itstead of not being
a priority at all its actually considered BAD?

Linus is a nutjob!

[Artur Grabowski]

Post by Marc Espie
So, when he tries to say that the OpenBSD crowd has a different attitude,
I don't know who he's referring to, but certainly not me.

That's the funniest part about this. If the attitude we have about the
issue in that disucssion makes us a bunch of wanking monkeys, I'll
lend him my baboon porn. He was saying the same things we say. Hell,
reading him in that discussion without the From: lines could make me
think I'm reading someone @openbsd.org

//art

[Sevan / Venture37]

looks like the theme for the 4.4 release is sorted then.
_________________________________________________________________
Invite your Facebook friends to chat on Messenger
http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/101719649/direct/01/

[Giancarlo Razzolini]

Post by Sevan / Venture37
looks like the theme for the 4.4 release is sorted then.
_________________________________________________________________
Invite your Facebook friends to chat on Messenger
http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/101719649/direct/01/

agreed. I barely can wait to see Ty Semaka artwork for 4.4. Definitively
it should include monkeys. And amoebas too.

My regards,
--
Giancarlo Razzolini
http://lock.razzolini.adm.br
Linux User 172199
Red Hat Certified Engineer no:804006389722501
Verify:https://www.redhat.com/certification/rhce/current/
Moleque Sem Conteudo Numero #002
OpenBSD Stable
Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron
4386 2A6F FFD4 4D5F 5842 6EA0 7ABE BBAB 9C0E 6B85

[Shizzle Cash]

Post by Giancarlo Razzolini
agreed. I barely can wait to see Ty Semaka artwork for 4.4.
Definitively
it should include monkeys. And amoebas too.

I agree, monkeys should definitely be somehow incorporated into the
artwork for the next release.

[Marcus Andree]

Don't forget some amoebas wearing suits and t-shirts with a penguin stamp.

Post by Giancarlo Razzolini
agreed. I barely can wait to see Ty Semaka artwork for 4.4. Definitively
it should include monkeys. And amoebas too.

I agree, monkeys should definitely be somehow incorporated into the artwork
for the next release.

[Marc Balmer]

Post by Giancarlo Razzolini
agreed. I barely can wait to see Ty Semaka artwork for 4.4. Definitively
it should include monkeys. And amoebas too.

I agree, monkeys should definitely be somehow incorporated into the artwork
for the next release.

ty draws openbsd developers as fish. and I think that we, the openbsd
developers, did enough to warrant a nice topic for the next release.
no need to resort to that strange monkey business.

or do you want to honour a stupid remark made by l. by making him
the main theme of our next release? I don't think so. we have
more substantial work that goes into our next release than the
stupid remark of a wanking fat penguin that all to obviously does
not understand what we do.

[Jim Willis]

I agree entirely! The OpenBSD developers should surely be raised upon
shoulders for all of there work... However a mocking sticker would be
rather awesome!

-Jim

[raven]

Post by Jim Willis
I agree entirely! The OpenBSD developers should surely be raised upon
shoulders for all of there work... However a mocking sticker would be
rather awesome!
-Jim

I ask into myself what appen if the anyone of the FSF or GPLled people
send at least one cent to developers, to say thanks to OpenSSH or
OpenBSD for their FREE (as beer) good software.
I think OpenSSH and OpenBSD just with this cents, will be poor more than
Zimbabwe. But ANY FUCKIN PERSON can choose what it's important for HIS
project? OpenBSD choose security, linux choose to sell cheese kernel
with cheese buggy software.
Why BSD license it's bad and GPL good? Fuck all. Anyone can choose what
he want. I choose OpenBSD and his philosophy...
Francesco

[Sevan / Venture37]

Post by Marc Balmer
ty draws openbsd developers as fish. and I think that we, the openbsd
developers, did enough to warrant a nice topic for the next release.
no need to resort to that strange monkey business.
or do you want to honour a stupid remark made by l. by making him
the main theme of our next release? I don't think so. we have
more substantial work that goes into our next release than the
stupid remark of a wanking fat penguin that all to obviously does
not understand what we do.

Personally, I think It'd be a nice continuation from the theme of the 4.3
release.
_________________________________________________________________
Invite your Facebook friends to chat on Messenger
http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/101719649/direct/01/

[Shizzle Cash]

Post by Marc Balmer

Post by Giancarlo Razzolini
agreed. I barely can wait to see Ty Semaka artwork for 4.4.
Definitively
it should include monkeys. And amoebas too.

I agree, monkeys should definitely be somehow incorporated into the artwork
for the next release.

ty draws openbsd developers as fish. and I think that we, the openbsd
developers, did enough to warrant a nice topic for the next release.
no need to resort to that strange monkey business.
or do you want to honour a stupid remark made by l. by making him
the main theme of our next release? I don't think so. we have
more substantial work that goes into our next release than the
stupid remark of a wanking fat penguin that all to obviously does
not understand what we do.

I concede your point. My agreement wasn't meant to dishonor the dev
team. I just agree with a previous statement that owning something
that was intended as an insult can diffuse the intended malice while
at the same time providing a bit of mirth for the person at whom the
insult was directed.

[Duncan Patton a Campbell]

On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:37:27 +0200

Post by Marc Balmer

Post by Giancarlo Razzolini
agreed. I barely can wait to see Ty Semaka artwork for 4.4. Definitively
it should include monkeys. And amoebas too.

I agree, monkeys should definitely be somehow incorporated into the artwork
for the next release.

ty draws openbsd developers as fish. and I think that we, the openbsd
developers, did enough to warrant a nice topic for the next release.
no need to resort to that strange monkey business.
or do you want to honour a stupid remark made by l. by making him
the main theme of our next release? I don't think so. we have
more substantial work that goes into our next release than the
stupid remark of a wanking fat penguin that all to obviously does
not understand what we do.

Wanking Sea Monkeys, then: the oceanic analogue of fleas,
at least in the area of genital proportion ;-)

Dhu

[Zamri Besar]

On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 7:42 PM, Duncan Patton a Campbell <

Post by Duncan Patton a Campbell
Wanking Sea Monkeys, then: the oceanic analogue of fleas,
at least in the area of genital proportion ;-)
Dhu

lol. Looks like someone is selling new stuffs over the net:

http://www.cafepress.com/spankymm

-zamri-

[Sunnz]

I guess Linus lost his ability to masturbate for a long time huh?

[Guido Tschakert]

Post by Duncan Patton a Campbell
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:37:27 +0200

Post by Marc Balmer

Post by Giancarlo Razzolini
agreed. I barely can wait to see Ty Semaka artwork for 4.4. Definitively
it should include monkeys. And amoebas too.

I agree, monkeys should definitely be somehow incorporated into the artwork
for the next release.

ty draws openbsd developers as fish. and I think that we, the openbsd
developers, did enough to warrant a nice topic for the next release.
no need to resort to that strange monkey business.
or do you want to honour a stupid remark made by l. by making him
the main theme of our next release? I don't think so. we have
more substantial work that goes into our next release than the
stupid remark of a wanking fat penguin that all to obviously does
not understand what we do.

Wanking Sea Monkeys, then: the oceanic analogue of fleas,
at least in the area of genital proportion ;-)
Dhu

Sea Monkeys?

I feed my fishes with sea monkeys!


guido

[Maxim Belooussov]

Post by Sevan / Venture37
looks like the theme for the 4.4 release is sorted then.
_________________________________________________________________
Invite your Facebook friends to chat on Messenger
http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/101719649/direct/01/

Can we get a sticker, too?

[Denis Doroshenko]

Post by Siju George
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
Again a mis representation in pulic?

haha, poor linus cries like a baby coz not everyone is gonna kiss his
ass these days.

of course security is not that important! there is no doubt, we've
seen numerous examples by linux indeed.

well, guess what is worse: a db server crashed and rebooted, or a db
server rooted and all valuable information sucked out of it. jeez, i
always thought that linux "wants" to get into serious game of big
servers etc., but with the leader like that?.. gimme a break.

he made my day with that comment! sorry guys for contributing to this,
just couldn't resist :-)

p.s. i guess dr. freud would find some serious troubles deep in the guy ;-)

[Marti Martinez]

From http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
I think the OpenBSD crowd is a bunch of masturbating monkeys

Well, shit, he's got ME nailed...

[Marc Balmer]

Post by Denis Doroshenko

Post by Siju George
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
Again a mis representation in pulic?

haha, poor linus cries like a baby coz not everyone is gonna kiss his
ass these days.
of course security is not that important! there is no doubt, we've
seen numerous examples by linux indeed.
well, guess what is worse: a db server crashed and rebooted, or a db
server rooted and all valuable information sucked out of it. jeez, i
always thought that linux "wants" to get into serious game of big
servers etc., but with the leader like that?.. gimme a break.
he made my day with that comment! sorry guys for contributing to this,
just couldn't resist :-)
p.s. i guess dr. freud would find some serious troubles deep in the guy ;-)

maybe it is noteworthy here that Sigmund Freud received his Dr. med degree
with a work on the spinal cord of lower fish species.

[Giancarlo Razzolini]

Post by Denis Doroshenko

Post by Siju George
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
Again a mis representation in pulic?

haha, poor linus cries like a baby coz not everyone is gonna kiss his
ass these days.
of course security is not that important! there is no doubt, we've
seen numerous examples by linux indeed.
well, guess what is worse: a db server crashed and rebooted, or a db
server rooted and all valuable information sucked out of it. jeez, i
always thought that linux "wants" to get into serious game of big
servers etc., but with the leader like that?.. gimme a break.
he made my day with that comment! sorry guys for contributing to this,
just couldn't resist :-)
p.s. i guess dr. freud would find some serious troubles deep in the guy ;-)

I took the care of reading all the thread. The guy is just asking linus
why the policy about security bugs isn't being followed. Linus replies
him telling that he do not want script kiddies to exploit the bugs. He
even says that security bugs are "normal" bugs. I think that linus
doesn't even know what full disclosure is. It's a shame for me, a linux
and openbsd user, to see the linux kernel main developer, saying things
like that. I think i might migrate my desktop machine to openbsd now.

My 2 cents,
--
Giancarlo Razzolini
http://lock.razzolini.adm.br
Linux User 172199
Red Hat Certified Engineer no:804006389722501
Verify:https://www.redhat.com/certification/rhce/current/
Moleque Sem Conteudo Numero #002
OpenBSD Stable
Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Herom
4386 2A6F FFD4 4D5F 5842 6EA0 7ABE BBAB 9C0E 6B85

[Marco Peereboom]

Oh he now develops code? I thought that ended somewhere in in '95.

Post by Giancarlo Razzolini

Post by Denis Doroshenko

Post by Siju George
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
Again a mis representation in pulic?

haha, poor linus cries like a baby coz not everyone is gonna kiss his
ass these days.
of course security is not that important! there is no doubt, we've
seen numerous examples by linux indeed.
well, guess what is worse: a db server crashed and rebooted, or a db
server rooted and all valuable information sucked out of it. jeez, i
always thought that linux "wants" to get into serious game of big
servers etc., but with the leader like that?.. gimme a break.
he made my day with that comment! sorry guys for contributing to this,
just couldn't resist :-)
p.s. i guess dr. freud would find some serious troubles deep in the guy ;-)

I took the care of reading all the thread. The guy is just asking linus
why the policy about security bugs isn't being followed. Linus replies
him telling that he do not want script kiddies to exploit the bugs. He
even says that security bugs are "normal" bugs. I think that linus
doesn't even know what full disclosure is. It's a shame for me, a linux
and openbsd user, to see the linux kernel main developer, saying things
like that. I think i might migrate my desktop machine to openbsd now.
My 2 cents,
--
Giancarlo Razzolini
http://lock.razzolini.adm.br
Linux User 172199
Red Hat Certified Engineer no:804006389722501
Verify:https://www.redhat.com/certification/rhce/current/
Moleque Sem Conteudo Numero #002
OpenBSD Stable
Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Herom
4386 2A6F FFD4 4D5F 5842 6EA0 7ABE BBAB 9C0E 6B85

[Giancarlo Razzolini]

Post by Marco Peereboom
Oh he now develops code? I thought that ended somewhere in in '95.

Post by Giancarlo Razzolini

Post by Denis Doroshenko

Post by Siju George
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
Again a mis representation in pulic?

haha, poor linus cries like a baby coz not everyone is gonna kiss his
ass these days.
of course security is not that important! there is no doubt, we've
seen numerous examples by linux indeed.
well, guess what is worse: a db server crashed and rebooted, or a db
server rooted and all valuable information sucked out of it. jeez, i
always thought that linux "wants" to get into serious game of big
servers etc., but with the leader like that?.. gimme a break.
he made my day with that comment! sorry guys for contributing to this,
just couldn't resist :-)
p.s. i guess dr. freud would find some serious troubles deep in the guy ;-)

I took the care of reading all the thread. The guy is just asking linus
why the policy about security bugs isn't being followed. Linus replies
him telling that he do not want script kiddies to exploit the bugs. He
even says that security bugs are "normal" bugs. I think that linus
doesn't even know what full disclosure is. It's a shame for me, a linux
and openbsd user, to see the linux kernel main developer, saying things
like that. I think i might migrate my desktop machine to openbsd now.
My 2 cents,
--
Giancarlo Razzolini
http://lock.razzolini.adm.br
Linux User 172199
Red Hat Certified Engineer no:804006389722501
Verify:https://www.redhat.com/certification/rhce/current/
Moleque Sem Conteudo Numero #002
OpenBSD Stable
Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Herom
4386 2A6F FFD4 4D5F 5842 6EA0 7ABE BBAB 9C0E 6B85

He is very good at taking someone's else code and putting that into the
linux kernel, i can assure that. My mind changed a lot since i started
using OpenBSD. I know see that the development model of the linux kernel
is flawed. I know, every model has it's issues. But *the* issue in linux
model is linus itself. It's a shame.

My 2 cents,
--
Giancarlo Razzolini
http://lock.razzolini.adm.br
Linux User 172199
Red Hat Certified Engineer no:804006389722501
Verify:https://www.redhat.com/certification/rhce/current/
Moleque Sem Conteudo Numero #002
OpenBSD Stable
Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Herom
4386 2A6F FFD4 4D5F 5842 6EA0 7ABE BBAB 9C0E 6B85

[Paul de Weerd]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 03:45:23PM -0300, Giancarlo Razzolini wrote:
| I took the care of reading all the thread. The guy is just asking linus
| why the policy about security bugs isn't being followed. Linus replies
| him telling that he do not want script kiddies to exploit the bugs. He
| even says that security bugs are "normal" bugs. I think that linus
| doesn't even know what full disclosure is. It's a shame for me, a linux
| and openbsd user, to see the linux kernel main developer, saying things
| like that. I think i might migrate my desktop machine to openbsd now.

I'd suggest you rethink your reasons for changing OS. If you want to
switch from Linux to OpenBSD (or vice versa, for all I care), please
make sure there's sound technical reasons for it. "The main guy said
something stupid" does not a bad product make.

Cheers,

Paul 'WEiRD' de Weerd

[Rildo Cezar]

Well, i agree with Razzolini.

Because the Linux problem is a "core" problem. It compromisse the whole
system.

Rcmp


----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul de Weerd" <***@weirdnet.nl>
To: "Giancarlo Razzolini" <linux-***@onda.com.br>
Cc: "Denis Doroshenko" <***@gmail.com>; "misc"
<***@openbsd.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: This is what Linus Torvalds calls openBSD crowd

Post by Paul de Weerd
| I took the care of reading all the thread. The guy is just asking linus
| why the policy about security bugs isn't being followed. Linus replies
| him telling that he do not want script kiddies to exploit the bugs. He
| even says that security bugs are "normal" bugs. I think that linus
| doesn't even know what full disclosure is. It's a shame for me, a linux
| and openbsd user, to see the linux kernel main developer, saying things
| like that. I think i might migrate my desktop machine to openbsd now.
I'd suggest you rethink your reasons for changing OS. If you want to
switch from Linux to OpenBSD (or vice versa, for all I care), please
make sure there's sound technical reasons for it. "The main guy said
something stupid" does not a bad product make.
Cheers,
Paul 'WEiRD' de Weerd
--

++++++++[<++++++++++>-]<+++++++.>+++[<------>-]<.>+++[<+

+++++++++++>-]<.>++[<------------>-]<+.--------------.[-]
http://www.weirdnet.nl/

[Giancarlo Razzolini]

Post by Paul de Weerd
I'd suggest you rethink your reasons for changing OS. If you want to
switch from Linux to OpenBSD (or vice versa, for all I care), please
make sure there's sound technical reasons for it. "The main guy said
something stupid" does not a bad product make.
Cheers,
Paul 'WEiRD' de Weerd

I'm still using linux and openbsd. There are technical reasons for me to
do that. The problem here isn't the main guy said something stupid. The
problem here, and this is what is making me more annoyed, is that i used
to have a point of view, and thinking of Linus as a great guy, who made
something important. He actually did, but now he is making it just plain
wrong. You know, security bugs are security bugs. The other ones are the
others. Simple like that. Linus is not just putting all of them in the
same sack, but he is also offending who does not, like the openbsd dev
team. This is an unacceptable attitude from someone who is in the front
line of an entire operational system, and, who wanting it or not, has a
big influence, at least in linux world. So, i will not change my OS
because of what Linus said or not. I will change it because i think
openbsd is better. Plain simple like that. If i do not change, there
will be technical reasons for that, like my sound card not working on
openbsd, or something like that (mention to note, it does not work
properly on linux).

My regards,
--
Giancarlo Razzolini
http://lock.razzolini.adm.br
Linux User 172199
Red Hat Certified Engineer no:804006389722501
Verify:https://www.redhat.com/certification/rhce/current/
Moleque Sem Conteudo Numero #002
OpenBSD Stable
Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron
4386 2A6F FFD4 4D5F 5842 6EA0 7ABE BBAB 9C0E 6B85

[Marco Peereboom]

*yawn* linus' opinion is as interesting as his relevance.

Post by Siju George
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
Again a mis representation in pulic?
--Siju

[mcb, inc.]

Post by Siju George
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
Again a mis representation in pulic?

"To me, security is important. But it's no less important than
everything *else* that is also important!" I.e. there are no shades
of gray in import hence importance is black-and-while. Hmmmm...

--
Monty Brandenberg

[Marcus Andree]

Post by mcb, inc.

Post by Siju George
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
Again a mis representation in pulic?

"To me, security is important. But it's no less important than
everything *else* that is also important!" I.e. there are no shades
of gray in import hence importance is black-and-while. Hmmmm...

IMO, this isn't the worst sentence on linus' interview. He has
the right to think anything about everything. He has even the
right to be plain wrong. But he should _not_ say this about
anyone:

"I think the OpenBSD crowd is a bunch of masturbating monkeys (...)"

What's the point here? If he places security in second place, that's fine.
But don't say people who _do_ think like that is a bunch of
bastards.

[Aaron Glenn]

Post by Siju George
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
Again a mis representation in pulic?

I like to think OpenBSD attracts the kind of people that come up with
their own opinions from their own experiences and don't invest too
heavily in others' before attempting to formulate their own.
In other words, who cares what Linus thinks of security or OpenBSD?
Just because he's the figure head of a very widely known open source
project doesn't mean his opinions should be glorified or are more
important.

[Jason Dixon]

Post by Aaron Glenn

Post by Siju George
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
Again a mis representation in pulic?

I like to think OpenBSD attracts the kind of people that come up with
their own opinions from their own experiences and don't invest too
heavily in others' before attempting to formulate their own.
In other words, who cares what Linus thinks of security or OpenBSD?
Just because he's the figure head of a very widely known open source
project doesn't mean his opinions should be glorified or are more
important.

And this is exactly why I never try to intice new users over to OpenBSD.
If they're knowledgeable and appreciate correct/secure/elegant code,
they'll find their way in time.

We like people who think for themselves and recognize what OpenBSD is
really all about. We don't want sheep.

[Aaron W. Hsu]

Hrm . . .

From: Siju George <***@gmail.com>
To: misc <***@openbsd.org>
Subject: This is what Linus Torvalds calls openBSD crowd

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950

Just to be clear:

The process we follow to increase security is simply a
comprehensive file-by-file analysis of every critical software
component. We are not so much looking for security holes, as we
are looking for basic software bugs, .... [1]

Sincerely,
Aaron Hsu

[1] <http://www.openbsd.org/security.html>

[Stuart VanZee]

From: Marti Martinez

From http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
I think the OpenBSD crowd is a bunch of masturbating monkeys

Well, shit, he's got ME nailed...
--
Systems Programmer, Principal
Electrical & Computer Engineering
The University of Arizona

I think I'll have a Masturbating Monkey t-shirt made.
The Idea is to have "OpenBSD Forever" on the front and
"Masturbating Monkey" on the back. Does anyone here
have a problem with that? (I wouldn't want to offend).

Oh, and feel free to make your own t-shirt (I'm not
intending on selling them), but be warned, wearing a
t-shirt like this in the wrong place could cause an
altercation. I am 6'3" and 260lbs so people don't mess
with me, If you are a smaller or more peaceful person
please be wary.

I think the best revenge in a situation like this is to
take an insult and keep it as a souvenir.

Thanks Linus.

s

PS I think the penguines are just jealous, ever try to
masterbate with a flipper?

[Fergus Wilde]

Post by Siju George
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
Again a mis representation in pulic?
--Siju

"OpenBSD - proudly powered by primates' privates"


--
Fergus Wilde
Chetham's Library
Long Millgate
Manchester
M3 1SB

Tel: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

http://www.chethams.org.uk

[Francisco Valladolid Hdez.]

Post by Siju George
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
Again a mis representation in pulic?

I think the software if free ( freedom) each proyect has the freedom to do the best effort posibly. Think only in BSD world (Net, Free, Open) three BSD operating system with different goals.

If you want give credit to the Linus words then continue the thread, if no, it can be closed subject.

Mr. Torvalds is free to talk any thing, we are freedom to listen or no listen your bad words.


Regards.

ficovh

[Andrew Klaus]

Umm.. Well if the OS is properly documented, why would you need to ask the
question in the first place? It's one thing to read things for yourself
throroughly, and another to just take some answer given to you. I'm sure the
people saying RTFM would tell you to do that unless it wasn't actuall in
TFM...

OpenBSD's documentation is one of, if not, the best documented OS' out
there. Believe me, I've used quite a few.

Thanks for playing!

Post by Nuno Magalhães
Eheh he's right :-) If you guys get your heads out of your asses and
actually read his words with the use of some common sense you might
get what he means. It's a balanced opinion.
From what i've seen so far in this list, the BSD-crowd *is* "a bunch
of masturbating monkeys" anyway, i get much more decent reasonable
answers to my problems in any Debian list, along with constructive
criticism. Here it's rtfm and chest-thumping.
Flame away boys, so i can gingerly ignore you :)

[Joel Jose]

if ppl stop giving "special" consideration to security, the quality of
security enforcement could come down. Ideally we like to "clean" all
bugs. But as is pointed out, bugs are many. Prioritizing bugs and
"dealing with a strong deadline" is vitally important. classification
of bugs into domain is the most effective way to deal with them. Not
only does it help people concerened in the area to be aware..fast. but
also it helps in "discussiong" it with like-minded people. Posting a
security bug in a general list will prove a little hard, as the people
may not know what meat-in-the middle, priviledge escalation..etc mean.
Its just bare stupidity to "clout" the bug space by generalizing it.
One more point, The security bugs are important because the harm done
is usually "crafted", with "bad intentions" and "on purpose". It also
leads to financial "theft" an d"crimes" than just the normal loss of
data or worktime(as in normal bug). You could get pennnalized as
abeiting the crime. But a gui crash is always less severe. People can
quickly loose trust in the software and the services that depend on
them can be irrecoverabliy damaged. Think about it.... there are more
people engaged in penetrating, propagating security holes than filing
common bug reports.... it definitely isnt a time-waster for them.

Hats of to open bsd people... its my second best distro for my
boundary router/firewall(if i dont use cisco that is.). My first
choice will be a kernel i "audited" myself... since i cant invest in
it... openbsd does a good job too... ;)

Post by Siju George
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
Again a mis representation in pulic?
--Siju

[Sean Kennedy]

We need a Button.



Reminds me of the advert in Comic Books of my youth, for Sea Monkeys,

Maybe we need Puffy looking concerned, with Sea Monkeys facing away from the
perspective doing "something" that most "Prudes" would find offensive..
Nothing "Obvious" mind-you, just a perspective of backs of Sea Monkeys'. Oooh
Sea-Monkey... :->


-sean




http://www.sea-monkeys.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea-Monkeys



.
_________________________________________________________________
Try Chicktionary, a game that tests how many words you can form from the
letters given. Find this and more puzzles at Live Search Games!
http://g.msn.ca/ca55/207

[Jose H.]

So sad the software icons like him need to use such an offensive way
of expressing simple ideas, I hope his destructive way of arguing
doesn't _encourage_the_wrong_behavior_ on more people.

Post by Sean Kennedy
We need a Button.
Reminds me of the advert in Comic Books of my youth, for Sea Monkeys,
Maybe we need Puffy looking concerned, with Sea Monkeys facing away from the
perspective doing "something" that most "Prudes" would find offensive..
Nothing "Obvious" mind-you, just a perspective of backs of Sea Monkeys'. Oooh
Sea-Monkey... :->
-sean
http://www.sea-monkeys.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea-Monkeys
.
_________________________________________________________________
Try Chicktionary, a game that tests how many words you can form from the
letters given. Find this and more puzzles at Live Search Games!
http://g.msn.ca/ca55/207

--
William Penn - "Time is what we want most, but what we use worst."