Sebastian Rother
2004-10-28 09:08:55 UTC
Dear Sirs, Dear madames,
I forward you a e-Mail because the person in charge for the
LINUX-Developing is completly incompetent.
At first I'll provide you the e-Mail I received and after that I'll
rewrite clearly MY interessts.
---
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:00:45 -0500
do have a supported Linux driver. If any of those users were using
Linux with those systems, I would appreciate if they could let us know
about their problem. You can find the Linux project website for the
2100 and 2200 wireless cards at http://ipw2100.sf.net and
http://ipw2200.sf.net. We have a fairly active open source community
and are very interested in resolving usage problems.
Thanks,
James
That's nice for you but that won HELP any student who has to install
Plan9 because the "teacher" is talking about Bell Labs and Plan9 and the
history of UNIX.
That also dosn't help me if I've to develop anything on a BSD because we
should BSD for developing XYZ!
Just imagine that we've to CHANGE the OS and just imagine too that some
ppl. DISLIKE linux like windows.
I used it the last time 3 years ago, just a example but also my teacher
just used it 3 weeks for a short part of a programming-lesson.
So these LINUX-drivers are NOT useable and all the other students CAN't
use it too because we use Plan9, Solaris for x86, BeOS, *BSD and others.
it depends to the stuff we do and to the homework we've to do.
Thanks for your response but I know that you provide LINUX-Drivers but
these drivers wont help somebody here.
I don't know about the american way of life but you know hubble in the
space? then you know also that the Humbolt-Unversität Berlin developed a
lot of
things for it. You know MP3? Then maybe you know about the cooperation
between the Frauenhofer Institut and the Freie Universität Berlin?
I just let you know that you're not present at some of the
High-Tec-Develop-Centers worldwide.
And you wont be present there for the professors, the students or the
admins because you don't provide somebody else then Windows or LINUX
(even I don't belive the drivers are opensource, am I right?) with
documentations so that other guys could write drivers for your damn
nics.
And maybe you know also about AMD and their factory in Dresden?
Since they opened this factory AMD proudly produce the Athlon, AthlonXP
and not the Athlon64.
the problem students and other ppl. have: We have to change or we like
to change the OS. So it's needles to have any Drivers for Windows or
LINUX if you've to use BeOS for 6 weeks because we talk about the
multimedia-implementations and advantages.
So pleace notice the reality and not the reality as you wish like to see
it.
I wont tel somebody to buy INTEL-NICs, the administrators tell the
students to buy other non-INTEL-based nics and other ppl. on the
university too. It is not my job to change it, it's yours but you know
that unversities need a lot NICs, Servers and so on so you can calculate
how much money you'll lose.
And just another example: Munich, another city in berlin, migrates to
LINUX as WorkstationOS and their servers to LINUX/BSD.
Be sure they wont use LINUX on servers because LINUX is buggy as
MS-Windows is and admins wont have to rebuild the kernel each 2 weeks
because any security related problems.
And another info: The 10 biggest ISPs in the world use BSD, not
LINUX....
It's not my job to correct your mind or misstakes I just tell you you
loose money and you'll lose money in the future.
And also I buy (privat) a VIA-Chipset-based Motherboard because it's:
1.: supported by mostly ANY OS
2.: it's cheap
I would buy INTEL stuff because I like the quality but what do I need
quality if nothing works (just a fu**ing windows or a goddamn LINUX and
I don't use BOTH (feel free to check the headers of the e-Mail))
The guys I know who also study use BSD.
3x NetBSD
2x FreeBSD
1x LINUX
So you can reach 1 guy with your products even 6 would by your cards
because the quality.
That is just a privat example and the guys I know are friends so I'm
sure they don't use Windows.
So if you've any other comments or questions feel free to ask me because
in my mind intel waste a chance to earn money.
With friendly greetings,
Sebastian Rother
p.s.
I'll buy new hardware for a project-server I've.
Be sure it wont be any Intel because the support I'll miss.
It will be a VIA KT800 or KT880 with an AMD64 and I'll use like I do
now: OpenBSD.
Even other commercial Webservers and security-products base on OpenBSD.
MS use FreeBSD for Hotmail.... just examples so open your eyes.
if you need more examples tell me, I'll find them if you don't have the
glaces to see them clearly.
---
I've a huge problem with the INTEL policy of the firmware.
INTEL provide NO documentations to ANY BSD-Project nor any other OS that
I use.
Mr. Ketreno (***@linux.intel.com) answered me that INTEL provide
LINUX-Drivers for their e.g. WLAN-NICs.
I wont use MS Windows or LINUX and I can't use it.
I'm a student from germany who study at the HUMBOLD UNIVERSITÄT zu
Berlin. Maybe you know the Hubble-Telescope? The Humbold University
developed importent parts of Hubble.
Let me explain the situation a littlebit more precise.
I wont buy any INTEL-BASED Computer because I don't get support.
And not the importent thing: I'm not the only guy and I know min 50.000
other students (just students of computer scientist) who wont buy
INTEL-based productes too.
The reason: We've 3 big universities in Berlin. These universities are
also 3 of the most importent universities of germany.
All there universities use a BSD-Derivate on their Server.
The Freie Universität use NetBSD mostly, the Humbold Universität use
SOLARIS for SPARC and FreeBSD.
And the Technische Universität use mostly NetBSB and LINUX.
Mr. Kentreno told me I can use LINUX drivers for the centrino wlan-nics.
That is right but these drivers wont help me because I don't use WINDOWS
or LINUX.
I've to use serval OSs so I need hardware wich is stable AND supported.
The Notebook I use was produced by GERICOM. I know the quality is worse
but it use a PENTIUM-4-M with NO intel-based NICs. They provide
VIA-based NICs.
I know also min. 100 ppl. (so other students) who are DISAPPOINTED
because they bought a INTEL CENTRINO and can't use it because your
fucking policy.
I'm sorry for my agressiv words but such ignorance like Mr. Kentreno
showed me, makes me angry.
Please ask the OpenBSD Mailinglist, the NetBSD Mailinglist and the
FreeBSD Mailinglist how MUCH ppl. wont buy INTEL because your Firmware
policy.
And please notice the reality even Mr. Kentreno wont notice it.
The most importent infrastructure of the WWW base on BSD-Licensed
Software. You know BIND, APACHE 1.3.x?
The 10 biggest ISPs of the world use BSD.
Microsoft use FreeBSD for the Hotmail-Servers.
Do you need ANY other example?
And I repeat: No university in Berlin will use INTEL-NICs or Servers.
Our Administrators prefere mostly SUN or, if possible, AMD OPTERON
because SUN and AMD do the things you don't do.
They are SUPPORTED by e.g. BSD because they PROVIDE Documentation so
that e.g. the Developers of OpenBSD can write drivers.
We've ~300.000 (or more) Students in Berlin.
We've 3 big WLANs (one for each campus) here.
No WLAN base on INTEL-NICs. E.g. the Humbold University use DLINK-based
NICs because they are supported by FreeBSD.
The Humbold University use normal little PC-boxes with WLAN-Cards as APs
for small PC-Pools and standalone APs (also produced by DLINK) for
bigger PC-Pools.
I know, because I know also other students from the Freie Universität,
that the other universities create their WLANs in the same way.
So wake up and don't show US, the CONSUMERS WHO SHOULD BUY YOUR
PRODUCTS, that you're just a collection of fat cats.
Your goal is it to SELL something and not to piss-off serval tousend
possibile consumers of your products. If I'm wrong please correct me but
your policy is realy terrible and e.g. for 50.000 students of computer
scientists not accaptable because they need notebooks which work on
BeOS, Linux, OpenBSD, FreeBSD, Plan9 and other OSs in the SAME way like
under WINDOWS.
If you've ANY questions feel free to ask me.
I just let you know the followring:
I replaced a DUAL XEON System I had (INTEL SHG2 Motherboard) with an
AMD64-base system because the support.
I've also a private webserver wich need a hardwareupdate.
I would choose INTEL (not it runs a ATHLON 650) if I would be sure that
the support would be guaranted.
Because of the ignorance of your company I can't be sure that the
hardware I would buy would be supported by the OS I use (and I use
OpenBSD mostly! Also for the webserver!).
So be sure I'll spend ~600 EURO or more for an AMD-based system with a
VIA KT800 or KT880 because I can be sure it WORKS!
Be sure you waste more then 2 Million US-D each year because we all know
INTEL dosn't make the big business with Desktop CPUs. You earn your
money with servers and even this dosn't deal with servers ppl. like to
buy servers produced by a company which is know that the hardware is
supported. View the Mailinglist of ANY BSD-OS and you'll notice ppl.
have offen problems with your INTEL-Crap because you don't provide
NOTHING for ANYTHING.
So you'll read about problems with the boot-process, the NICs, the
WLAN-NICs, Centrino-"Crapnology" and other INTEL-based problems. YOu'll
read much less about AMD-Chipsets (yes AMD produce Chipsets like you do)
or VIA-based hardware.
Friendly greetings,
Sebastian Rother
P.s.
I waited some months but even LINUX dosn't supported the INTEL SHG2
accaptable.
Now I followed the advice of the administrators of my university and
sold this shit and bought an AMD-Based Solution wich is as fast as the
INTEL and much cheaper.
I used INTEL serval years but I can't use it anymore because everytime
I've to change the OS I've to look in the LIST if the hardware is
supported even it's about 9 months old.
So it is for me just expensiv crap in the moment even I would prefere it
if it would be supported!!!
I forward you a e-Mail because the person in charge for the
LINUX-Developing is completly incompetent.
At first I'll provide you the e-Mail I received and after that I'll
rewrite clearly MY interessts.
---
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:00:45 -0500
I work also in such a PC-Pool as student-worker and I had also today
11 students with a CENTRINO-based notebook who had a problem to enter
the WLAN-Network. 2 of them wasn't able to configure the WinXP so
there 9 left who will buy a new WLAN-Card soon because they don't use
Windows.
While (as you know I'm sure) we don't have a supported BSD driver, we11 students with a CENTRINO-based notebook who had a problem to enter
the WLAN-Network. 2 of them wasn't able to configure the WinXP so
there 9 left who will buy a new WLAN-Card soon because they don't use
Windows.
do have a supported Linux driver. If any of those users were using
Linux with those systems, I would appreciate if they could let us know
about their problem. You can find the Linux project website for the
2100 and 2200 wireless cards at http://ipw2100.sf.net and
http://ipw2200.sf.net. We have a fairly active open source community
and are very interested in resolving usage problems.
Thanks,
James
Plan9 because the "teacher" is talking about Bell Labs and Plan9 and the
history of UNIX.
That also dosn't help me if I've to develop anything on a BSD because we
should BSD for developing XYZ!
Just imagine that we've to CHANGE the OS and just imagine too that some
ppl. DISLIKE linux like windows.
I used it the last time 3 years ago, just a example but also my teacher
just used it 3 weeks for a short part of a programming-lesson.
So these LINUX-drivers are NOT useable and all the other students CAN't
use it too because we use Plan9, Solaris for x86, BeOS, *BSD and others.
it depends to the stuff we do and to the homework we've to do.
Thanks for your response but I know that you provide LINUX-Drivers but
these drivers wont help somebody here.
I don't know about the american way of life but you know hubble in the
space? then you know also that the Humbolt-Unversität Berlin developed a
lot of
things for it. You know MP3? Then maybe you know about the cooperation
between the Frauenhofer Institut and the Freie Universität Berlin?
I just let you know that you're not present at some of the
High-Tec-Develop-Centers worldwide.
And you wont be present there for the professors, the students or the
admins because you don't provide somebody else then Windows or LINUX
(even I don't belive the drivers are opensource, am I right?) with
documentations so that other guys could write drivers for your damn
nics.
And maybe you know also about AMD and their factory in Dresden?
Since they opened this factory AMD proudly produce the Athlon, AthlonXP
and not the Athlon64.
the problem students and other ppl. have: We have to change or we like
to change the OS. So it's needles to have any Drivers for Windows or
LINUX if you've to use BeOS for 6 weeks because we talk about the
multimedia-implementations and advantages.
So pleace notice the reality and not the reality as you wish like to see
it.
I wont tel somebody to buy INTEL-NICs, the administrators tell the
students to buy other non-INTEL-based nics and other ppl. on the
university too. It is not my job to change it, it's yours but you know
that unversities need a lot NICs, Servers and so on so you can calculate
how much money you'll lose.
And just another example: Munich, another city in berlin, migrates to
LINUX as WorkstationOS and their servers to LINUX/BSD.
Be sure they wont use LINUX on servers because LINUX is buggy as
MS-Windows is and admins wont have to rebuild the kernel each 2 weeks
because any security related problems.
And another info: The 10 biggest ISPs in the world use BSD, not
LINUX....
It's not my job to correct your mind or misstakes I just tell you you
loose money and you'll lose money in the future.
And also I buy (privat) a VIA-Chipset-based Motherboard because it's:
1.: supported by mostly ANY OS
2.: it's cheap
I would buy INTEL stuff because I like the quality but what do I need
quality if nothing works (just a fu**ing windows or a goddamn LINUX and
I don't use BOTH (feel free to check the headers of the e-Mail))
The guys I know who also study use BSD.
3x NetBSD
2x FreeBSD
1x LINUX
So you can reach 1 guy with your products even 6 would by your cards
because the quality.
That is just a privat example and the guys I know are friends so I'm
sure they don't use Windows.
So if you've any other comments or questions feel free to ask me because
in my mind intel waste a chance to earn money.
With friendly greetings,
Sebastian Rother
p.s.
I'll buy new hardware for a project-server I've.
Be sure it wont be any Intel because the support I'll miss.
It will be a VIA KT800 or KT880 with an AMD64 and I'll use like I do
now: OpenBSD.
Even other commercial Webservers and security-products base on OpenBSD.
MS use FreeBSD for Hotmail.... just examples so open your eyes.
if you need more examples tell me, I'll find them if you don't have the
glaces to see them clearly.
---
I've a huge problem with the INTEL policy of the firmware.
INTEL provide NO documentations to ANY BSD-Project nor any other OS that
I use.
Mr. Ketreno (***@linux.intel.com) answered me that INTEL provide
LINUX-Drivers for their e.g. WLAN-NICs.
I wont use MS Windows or LINUX and I can't use it.
I'm a student from germany who study at the HUMBOLD UNIVERSITÄT zu
Berlin. Maybe you know the Hubble-Telescope? The Humbold University
developed importent parts of Hubble.
Let me explain the situation a littlebit more precise.
I wont buy any INTEL-BASED Computer because I don't get support.
And not the importent thing: I'm not the only guy and I know min 50.000
other students (just students of computer scientist) who wont buy
INTEL-based productes too.
The reason: We've 3 big universities in Berlin. These universities are
also 3 of the most importent universities of germany.
All there universities use a BSD-Derivate on their Server.
The Freie Universität use NetBSD mostly, the Humbold Universität use
SOLARIS for SPARC and FreeBSD.
And the Technische Universität use mostly NetBSB and LINUX.
Mr. Kentreno told me I can use LINUX drivers for the centrino wlan-nics.
That is right but these drivers wont help me because I don't use WINDOWS
or LINUX.
I've to use serval OSs so I need hardware wich is stable AND supported.
The Notebook I use was produced by GERICOM. I know the quality is worse
but it use a PENTIUM-4-M with NO intel-based NICs. They provide
VIA-based NICs.
I know also min. 100 ppl. (so other students) who are DISAPPOINTED
because they bought a INTEL CENTRINO and can't use it because your
fucking policy.
I'm sorry for my agressiv words but such ignorance like Mr. Kentreno
showed me, makes me angry.
Please ask the OpenBSD Mailinglist, the NetBSD Mailinglist and the
FreeBSD Mailinglist how MUCH ppl. wont buy INTEL because your Firmware
policy.
And please notice the reality even Mr. Kentreno wont notice it.
The most importent infrastructure of the WWW base on BSD-Licensed
Software. You know BIND, APACHE 1.3.x?
The 10 biggest ISPs of the world use BSD.
Microsoft use FreeBSD for the Hotmail-Servers.
Do you need ANY other example?
And I repeat: No university in Berlin will use INTEL-NICs or Servers.
Our Administrators prefere mostly SUN or, if possible, AMD OPTERON
because SUN and AMD do the things you don't do.
They are SUPPORTED by e.g. BSD because they PROVIDE Documentation so
that e.g. the Developers of OpenBSD can write drivers.
We've ~300.000 (or more) Students in Berlin.
We've 3 big WLANs (one for each campus) here.
No WLAN base on INTEL-NICs. E.g. the Humbold University use DLINK-based
NICs because they are supported by FreeBSD.
The Humbold University use normal little PC-boxes with WLAN-Cards as APs
for small PC-Pools and standalone APs (also produced by DLINK) for
bigger PC-Pools.
I know, because I know also other students from the Freie Universität,
that the other universities create their WLANs in the same way.
So wake up and don't show US, the CONSUMERS WHO SHOULD BUY YOUR
PRODUCTS, that you're just a collection of fat cats.
Your goal is it to SELL something and not to piss-off serval tousend
possibile consumers of your products. If I'm wrong please correct me but
your policy is realy terrible and e.g. for 50.000 students of computer
scientists not accaptable because they need notebooks which work on
BeOS, Linux, OpenBSD, FreeBSD, Plan9 and other OSs in the SAME way like
under WINDOWS.
If you've ANY questions feel free to ask me.
I just let you know the followring:
I replaced a DUAL XEON System I had (INTEL SHG2 Motherboard) with an
AMD64-base system because the support.
I've also a private webserver wich need a hardwareupdate.
I would choose INTEL (not it runs a ATHLON 650) if I would be sure that
the support would be guaranted.
Because of the ignorance of your company I can't be sure that the
hardware I would buy would be supported by the OS I use (and I use
OpenBSD mostly! Also for the webserver!).
So be sure I'll spend ~600 EURO or more for an AMD-based system with a
VIA KT800 or KT880 because I can be sure it WORKS!
Be sure you waste more then 2 Million US-D each year because we all know
INTEL dosn't make the big business with Desktop CPUs. You earn your
money with servers and even this dosn't deal with servers ppl. like to
buy servers produced by a company which is know that the hardware is
supported. View the Mailinglist of ANY BSD-OS and you'll notice ppl.
have offen problems with your INTEL-Crap because you don't provide
NOTHING for ANYTHING.
So you'll read about problems with the boot-process, the NICs, the
WLAN-NICs, Centrino-"Crapnology" and other INTEL-based problems. YOu'll
read much less about AMD-Chipsets (yes AMD produce Chipsets like you do)
or VIA-based hardware.
Friendly greetings,
Sebastian Rother
P.s.
I waited some months but even LINUX dosn't supported the INTEL SHG2
accaptable.
Now I followed the advice of the administrators of my university and
sold this shit and bought an AMD-Based Solution wich is as fast as the
INTEL and much cheaper.
I used INTEL serval years but I can't use it anymore because everytime
I've to change the OS I've to look in the LIST if the hardware is
supported even it's about 9 months old.
So it is for me just expensiv crap in the moment even I would prefere it
if it would be supported!!!